Clyde closer to Kobe or Kobe closer to MJ

[mdonnelly1989]

Which gap do you think is larger

Let's say in terms of best 8 seasons combined.

[ceiling raiser]

I’m no fan of Kobe but he’s clearly closer to MJ. He was consistently an all-NBA player. Clyde? Ehhh

[LukaTheGOAT]

I’m no fan of Kobe but he’s clearly closer to MJ. He was consistently an all-NBA player. Clyde? Ehhh

If you think Kobe was only consistently an all-NBA player, than Clyde is definitely closer to Kobe than Kobe is to MJ (someone many would argue had a GOAT prime).

[ceoofkobefans]

Kobe is a fringe t5 player ever (4 at the highest 9 at the lowest imo) Clyde is a fringe t45 player ever (I’d say his range is prolly 43 at the highest 52 at the lowest?) I would say the gap in that is a lot bigger than the gap in MJ and Kobe

If you would’ve said gap in Kobe or wade then there’s a debate on which gap is bigger

[ceoofkobefans]

I’m no fan of Kobe but he’s clearly closer to MJ. He was consistently an all-NBA player. Clyde? Ehhh

Kobe was consistently an mvp level player

[HeartBreakKid]

My mind is blown that people think the gap between GOAT candidates and perennial MVP candidates are that big.

[70sFan]

I think Kobe is closer to Jordan than Drexler. Currently, I have Kobe in 11-15 range, while Drexler is maybe in the late 30s? Maybe early 40s?

Jordan is 4th all-time on my list, but even if you have Jordan as the GOAT, the gap is smaller in my opinion.

[OhayoKD]

My mind is blown that people think the gap between GOAT candidates and perennial MVPs are that big.

Kobe wasn't a perennial MVP though? He won once and it was pretty controversial anyway. He gets pretty high on longetvity in my book but is the gap between peak kobe and peak clyde that big?

[HeartBreakKid]

My mind is blown that people think the gap between GOAT candidates and perennial MVPs are that big.

Kobe wasn't a perennial MVP though? He won once and it was pretty controversial anyway. He gets pretty high on longetvity in my book but is the gap between peak kobe and peak clyde that big?

Perennial MVP candidate*

[70sFan]

My mind is blown that people think the gap between GOAT candidates and perennial MVPs are that big.

Kobe wasn't a perennial MVP though? He won once and it was pretty controversial anyway. He gets pretty high on longetvity in my book but is the gap between peak kobe and peak clyde that big?

I think it's quite significant. Kobe peaked as a solid MVP candidate, though without any all-time level season. Drexler is more like a solid all-nba level player at his best.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Starting this post over again because I lost it....

Looking at these guys in the PS, I chose their best 8-year peak stretches (not best 8 seasons, but it shouldn't make too big of a difference with these guys).

88-96 MJ in the PS

Backpicks BPM-8.9 (+2.8 Advantage over Kobe)
BPM-11.7 (+5.7 Advantage over Kobe)
PER-29 (+5.7 Advantage over Kobe)
WS/48-.263 (+0.087 Advantage over Kobe)

01-09 Kobe in the PS

Backpicks BPM-6.1 (+0.2 Advantage over Drexler)
BPM-6 (-0.7 DEFICIT to Drexler)
PER-23.3 (+2.4 Advantage over Drexler)
WS/48-.176 (+0.021 Advantage over Drexler)

88-95 Clyde Drexler in the PS

Backpicks BPM-5.9
BPM-6.7
PER-20.9
WS/48-0.155


MJ on average had a +3.57175 lead over Kobe in each of the metrics.
Kobe on average had a +0.48025 lead over Drexler in each of the metrics.

The 3 are lauded for having similar styles. Per the box-score, it does seem as if MJ creates more separation from Kobe, then Kobe does from Drexler. MJ led Kobe in all these metrics and had a bigger difference between him and Kobe, then Kobe and Drexler had for each stat. On the other hand, we see that Kobe does not unanimously come out ahead by every chosen metric.

[OhayoKD]

My mind is blown that people think the gap between GOAT candidates and perennial MVPs are that big.

Kobe wasn't a perennial MVP though? He won once and it was pretty controversial anyway. He gets pretty high on longetvity in my book but is the gap between peak kobe and peak clyde that big?

I think it's quite significant. Kobe peaked as a solid MVP candidate, though without any all-time level season. Drexler is more like a solid all-nba level player at his best.

I guess it might be a good idea to try and quanitfy the impact of the three players here then if we're going to try and determine which gap is bigger. With raw stuff(keep in mind apm-based stuff will be artificially curving top-line results) you can get pretty big gaps even within the top 5-10. So I wouldn't be surprised if the jordan-kobe gap is bigger than kobe-clyde. Though taking a box or impact approach will yeild different starting approximations anyway.

Tho luka's post seems to indicate a box-based asssement will say mj to kobe is a bigger gap. Impact stuff is lower on jordan(20ish wins) so maybe it gets smaller there. I haven't done this kind of assessment with clyde though

[ceoofkobefans]

I think Kobe is closer to Jordan than Drexler. Currently, I have Kobe in 11-15 range, while Drexler is maybe in the late 30s? Maybe early 40s?

Jordan is 4th all-time on my list, but even if you have Jordan as the GOAT, the gap is smaller in my opinion.

Kobe 11-15 is nasty Eats I can’t lie. How low are you on his peak?

[Dutchball97]

I think Kobe is closer to Jordan than Drexler. Currently, I have Kobe in 11-15 range, while Drexler is maybe in the late 30s? Maybe early 40s?

Jordan is 4th all-time on my list, but even if you have Jordan as the GOAT, the gap is smaller in my opinion.

Kobe 11-15 is nasty Eats I can’t lie. How low are you on his peak?

I don't think his assesment of Kobe is as uncommon as you might think on here. In the 2020 top 100 Kobe was ranked 12th all-time, while in the most recent peaks project his 08 season was rated as the 19th best peak (one season per player).

[MyUniBroDavis]

I think Kobe is closer to Jordan than Drexler. Currently, I have Kobe in 11-15 range, while Drexler is maybe in the late 30s? Maybe early 40s?

Jordan is 4th all-time on my list, but even if you have Jordan as the GOAT, the gap is smaller in my opinion.

Kobe 11-15 is nasty Eats I can’t lie. How low are you on his peak?

I don't think his assesment of Kobe is as uncommon as you might think on here. In the 2020 top 100 Kobe was ranked 12th all-time, while in the most recent peaks project his 08 season was rated as the 19th best peak (one season per player).

There’s generally a clear top 13 I think, with
west/Oscar/garnett added on from the typical guys in a top 10

[70sFan]

I think Kobe is closer to Jordan than Drexler. Currently, I have Kobe in 11-15 range, while Drexler is maybe in the late 30s? Maybe early 40s?

Jordan is 4th all-time on my list, but even if you have Jordan as the GOAT, the gap is smaller in my opinion.

Kobe 11-15 is nasty Eats I can’t lie. How low are you on his peak?

I always find it strange that people think I am low on Kobe because he's not in my top 10. Do you realize how ridiculous top 10 competition is?

In terms of peaks, I have Kobe as a clear top 7 guard peak. He's definitely below Jordan, I would put him below Magic, West and Curry to me and he's fighting with Oscar and Wade. How does it put him overall? Around top 20 peak?

[MyUniBroDavis]

I think Kobe is closer to Jordan than Drexler. Currently, I have Kobe in 11-15 range, while Drexler is maybe in the late 30s? Maybe early 40s?

Jordan is 4th all-time on my list, but even if you have Jordan as the GOAT, the gap is smaller in my opinion.

Kobe 11-15 is nasty Eats I can’t lie. How low are you on his peak?

I always find it strange that people think I am low on Kobe because he's not in my top 10. Do you realize how ridiculous top 10 competition is?

In terms of peaks, I have Kobe as a clear top 7 guard peak. He's definitely below Jordan, I would put him below Magic, West and Curry to me and he's fighting with Oscar and Wade. How does it put him overall? Around top 20 peak?

I don’t think you’re low on Kobe in the context of this board, thats an average ranking for him here even if I’m a good deal higher

[70sFan]

Kobe 11-15 is nasty Eats I can’t lie. How low are you on his peak?

I always find it strange that people think I am low on Kobe because he's not in my top 10. Do you realize how ridiculous top 10 competition is?

In terms of peaks, I have Kobe as a clear top 7 guard peak. He's definitely below Jordan, I would put him below Magic, West and Curry to me and he's fighting with Oscar and Wade. How does it put him overall? Around top 20 peak?

I don’t think you’re low on Kobe in the context of this board, thats an average ranking for him here even if I’m a good deal higher

Yeah, nothing wrong with having Kobe inside top 10 if you value things Kobe did highly (on-ball creation, scoring versatility, longevity). I think putting him inside top 5 is too far, but I am willing to listen the case.

In fact, given that I value defensive stars way higher than average fan, it should be a sign for everyone how high I am on Kobe's offense. Otherwise, I wouldn't put him above someone like David Robinson or just next to Kevin Garnett.

[Dutchball97]

Kobe 11-15 is nasty Eats I can’t lie. How low are you on his peak?

I don't think his assesment of Kobe is as uncommon as you might think on here. In the 2020 top 100 Kobe was ranked 12th all-time, while in the most recent peaks project his 08 season was rated as the 19th best peak (one season per player).

There’s generally a clear top 13 I think, with
west/Oscar/garnett added on from the typical guys in a top 10

That would be a top 14 then because besides those 3 guys the typical "top 10" is 11 players deep.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I always find it strange that people think I am low on Kobe because he's not in my top 10. Do you realize how ridiculous top 10 competition is?

In terms of peaks, I have Kobe as a clear top 7 guard peak. He's definitely below Jordan, I would put him below Magic, West and Curry to me and he's fighting with Oscar and Wade. How does it put him overall? Around top 20 peak?

I don’t think you’re low on Kobe in the context of this board, thats an average ranking for him here even if I’m a good deal higher

Yeah, nothing wrong with having Kobe inside top 10 if you value things Kobe did highly (on-ball creation, scoring versatility, longevity). I think putting him inside top 5 is too far, but I am willing to listen the case.

In fact, given that I value defensive stars way higher than average fan, it should be a sign for everyone how high I am on Kobe's offense. Otherwise, I wouldn't put him above someone like David Robinson or just next to Kevin Garnett.

I mean my criteria is pretty different from guys on here, KG in terms of career value or CORP or wtv would probably be easily in the top 10 and pushing decently high there but I probably have him at 15-20 ish

My criteria flips between accomplishments + how good they are in an absolute sense or adding in how good they are relatively speaking depending on who it is, although I flip flop on that a lot, so Kobe ends up crazy high for me

^^^ edit; my bad I thought I said I had Kobe top 5, although I don’t know if I even do lol