RealGM

The ranking of players alltime is varied and the important aspects giving value is different among people. Rank the players below, state your order of careers and give your reasonings.


Stats up to 2022:

Career:


Kobe Bryant -

RS:
1346gm, 36.1mins, 25pts, 44.7fg%, 5.2reb, 4.7ast, 1.4stl, 0.5blk, 3tos, 110OR, 105DR, 22.9PER, 122.1ows, 50.7dws, 172.7ws, .170ws/48, 4.6bpm, 80.1vorp

PS:
220gm, 39.3mins, 25.6pts, 44.8fg%, 5.1reb, 4.7ast, 1.4stl, 0.7blk, 2.9tos, 110OR, 106DR, 22.4PER, 21.0ows, 7.3dws, 28.3ws, .157ws/48, 5.4bpm, 16.2vorp


Kevin Durant -

RS -
939gm, 36.8mins, 27.2pts, 49.6fg%, 7.1reb, 4.3ast, 1.1stl, 1.1blk, 3.2tos, 118OR 106DR, 25.3PER, 61.6ts%, 111.1ows, 44.1dws, 155.2ws, .216ws/48, 6.8bpm, 76.4vorp

PS -
2010-22, 155gm, 40.4mins, 29.4pts, 47.6fg%, 7.8reb, 4.1ast, 1stl, 1.2blk, 3.2tos, 115OR, 107DR, 24.3PER, 59.8ts%, 17.8ows, 7.4dws, 25.2ws, .193ws/48, 6.9bpm, 14.1vorp


Dirk Nowitzki -

RS -
1522gm, 33.8mins, 20.7pts, 47.1fg%, 7.5reb, 2.4ast, 0.8stl, 0.8blk, 1.6tos, 116OR, 104DR, 22.4PER, 57.7ts%, 143.8ows, 62.6dws, 206.3ws, .193ws/48, 4.5bpm, 84.8vorp

PS -
145gm, 40.7mins, 25.3pts, 46.2fg%, 10reb, 2.5ast, 1stl, 0.9blk, 2.3tos, 117OR, 107DR, 23.8PER, 57.7ts%, 18.0ows, 5.1dws, 23.1ws, .188ws/48, 5.9bpm, 11.8vorp


Stephen Curry -

RS -
826gm, 34.3mins, 24.3pts, 47.3fg%, 4.6reb, 6.5ast, 1.7stl, 0.2blk 3.1tos, 118OR, 107DR, 23.8PER, 62.4ts%, 87.6ows, 32.7dws, 120.2ws, .203ws/48, 6.5bpm, 60.9vorp

PS -
134gm, 37.3mins, 26.6pts, 5.4reb, 6.2ast, 1.6stl, 0.3blk, 3.3tos, 117OR, 108DR, 23.2PER, 60.8ts%, 14.7ows, 5.7dws, 20.3ws, .195ws/48, 7.1bpm, 11.4vorp


Chris Paul-

RS -
1155gm, 34.5mkns, 18.1pts, 47.3fg%, 4.5reb, 9.5ast, 2.1stl, 0.1blk, 2.4tos, 123OR, 105DR, PER

PS -
142gm, 36.6mkns, 20.4pts, 48.6fg%, 4.9reb, 8.3ast, 1.9stl, 0.2blk, 2.6tos, 119OR, 109DR, PER



Prime:


Kobe Bryant -

RS -
1999-2013, 1089gm,, 38.8mins, 27.4pts, 45.5fg%, 5.7reb, 5.1ast, 1.6stl, 0.5blk, 3.2tos, 112OR, 105DR, 23.9PER, 55.6ts%, 118.9ows, 46.3dws, 165.2ws, .188ws/48, 5.3bpm, 77.1vorp

PS:
1999-2012, 200gm, 41.4mins, 27.4pts, 44.9fg%, 5.4reb, 5.1ast, 1.5stl, 0.7blk, 3.1tos, 110OR, 106DR, 22.8PER, 54.2ts%, 20.7ows, 7.2dws, 27.9ws, .162ws/48, 5.7bpm, 16.2vorp


Kevin Durant -

RS -
2010-2022, 785gm, 36.7mins, 28.1pts, 50.6fg%, 7.4reb, 4.7ast, 1.1stl, 1.2blk, 3.2tos, 120OR, 105DR, 26.6PER, 62.8ts%, 105.6ows, 39.4dws, 145ws, 241ws/48, 7.8bpm, 71.3vorp

PS -
155gm, 40.4mins, 29.4pts, 47.6fg%, 7.8reb, 4.1ast, 1stl, 1.2blk, 3.2tos, 115OR, 107DR, 24.3PER, 59.8ts%, 17.8ows, 7.4dws, 25.2ws, .193ws/48, 6.9bpm, 14.1vorp


Dirk Nowitzki -

RS -
2001-14, 1059gm, 36.6mins, 23.6pts, 47.9fg%, 8.4reb, 2.7ast, 0.9stl, 0.9blk, 1.9tos, 118OR, 104DR, 24.2PER, 58.5ts%, 125.4ows, 50.5dws, 175.9ws, .218ws/48, 5.6bpm, 74.5vorp

PS -
135gm, 41.1mins, 25.6pts, 46.1fg%, 10.1reb, 2.5ast, 1.1stl, 0.9blk, 2.3tos, 117OR, 107DR, 24.2PER, 57.9ts%, 17.3ows, 5.2dws, 22.6ws, .196ws/48, 6.2bpm, 11.4vorp


Stephen Curry -

RS -
2013-22, 646gm, 34.4mins, 26.2pts, 4.8reb, 6.7ast, 1.7stl, 0.2blk, 3.2tos, 119OR, 106DR, 25.4PER, 63.2ts%, 77.4ows, 29.3dws, 106.7ws, .230ws/48, 7.8bpm, 55.1vorp

PS -
134gm, 37.3mins, 26.6pts, 5.4reb, 6.2ast, 1.6stl, 0.3blk, 3.3tos, 117OR, 108DR, 23.2PER, 60.8ts%, 14.7ows, 5.7dws, 20.3ws, .195ws/48, 7.1bpm, 11.4vorp


Chris Paul-

RS -
1155gm, 34.5mkns, 18.1pts, 47.3fg%, 4.5reb, 9.5ast, 2.1stl, 0.1blk, 2.4tos, 123OR, 105DR, 24.6PER, 58.3ts%, 144.9ows, 54dws, 198.9ws, .239ws/48, 7.3bpm, 93.7vorp

PS -
142gm, 36.6mkns, 20.4pts, 48.6fg%, 4.9reb, 8.3ast, 1.9stl, 0.2blk, 2.6tos, 119OR, 109DR, 23.6PER, 58.7ts%, 15.8ows, 5.1dws, 20.9ws, .193ws/48, 6.9bpm, 11.7vorp

Kobe=Steph > Dirk=Durant > CP3
Kobe is severely underrated on this board. 5x championships, 11x First team all-nba (15x total), 11 seasons finishing top 5 in MVP.
Numbers are important, but to a fan base, a club, and a player, winning basketball games and championships is the ultimate goal or measure of success. It is difficult and requires lot of luck, but that's what makes legends. Kobe/Steph/Dirk also are the face of their franchises.

dygaction wrote:Kobe=Steph > Dirk=Durant > CP3
Kobe is severely underrated on this board. 5x championships, 11x First team all-nba (15x total), 11 seasons finishing top 5 in MVP.
Numbers are important, but to a fan base, a club, and a player, winning basketball games and championships is the ultimate goal or measure of success. It is difficult and requires lot of luck, but that's what makes legends. Kobe/Steph/Dirk also are the face of their franchises.

You mean literally the value of their careers and not how good they are?

Then Chris Paul is better than Dirk...he's made more money than him by a lot. So has Durant? No one outside of Dallas cares about Dirk Nowitzki on a mainstream level.

You're probably just going to tweak this inconsistency so Dirk comes out on top but you're bringing things up like fan base and **** but somehow missing the mark of that even means lol. (Dirk has less accolades, less money and is less famous than Durant)

The fact that Durant is the center of controversy while during Dirk's peak years (08-until he literally won a title) he was basically forgotten is already a testament to who has a more valuable "career" if you're just not talking "numbers".

No, being the bad guy isn't relevant.

HeartBreakKid wrote:

dygaction wrote:Kobe=Steph > Dirk=Durant > CP3
Kobe is severely underrated on this board. 5x championships, 11x First team all-nba (15x total), 11 seasons finishing top 5 in MVP.
Numbers are important, but to a fan base, a club, and a player, winning basketball games and championships is the ultimate goal or measure of success. It is difficult and requires lot of luck, but that's what makes legends. Kobe/Steph/Dirk also are the face of their franchises.

You mean literally the value of their careers and not how good they are?

Then Chris Paul is better than Dirk...he's made more money than him by a lot. So has Durant? No one outside of Dallas cares about Dirk Nowitzki on a mainstream level.

You're probably just going to tweak this inconsistency so Dirk comes out on top but you're bringing things up like fan base and **** but somehow missing the mark of that even means lol. (Dirk has less accolades, less money and is less famous than Durant)

The fact that Durant is the center of controversy while during Dirk's peak years (08-until he literally won a title) he was basically forgotten is already a testament to who has a more valuable "career" if you're just not talking "numbers".

No, being the bad guy isn't relevant.

I don't have a problem if someone wants to rank Durant higher, but CP3 really has nothing there, except LOL at your using money as the measure - then any of them has made more than Russell/Wilt combined.

1. Steph
2. CP3
3. Dirk
4. Kobe
5. Durant

All these players played in the advanced stats era. Steph and CP3 were consistently 2 of the top players by impact stats year after year. Dirk varied, but had an all-time impact year in 2011 with one of the highest RAPMs ever recorded while also leading his team to a ring. Kobe and KD never really ranked as one of the very top players on the league in impact stats. KD also played on the same team with Steph and was clearly MUCH less impactful.

This is likely because while all 5 players were elite scorers, KD and Kobe didn’t have any major way of impacting the game aside from their scoring. Chris Paul on the other hand was both an elite passer and defender, while Dirk and Steph both warped the court with their incredible gravity.

Within the players who had similar impact, I’d give Curry the edge over CP3 for playoff success after his 2022 ring where he really carried his team in the Finals. Prior to that I had CP3 higher. Kobe has the edge over Durant due to his longevity but on a year to year basis, I’d consider them pretty even.

For tiers, here is my ranking:

11-16 Tier: Kobe, Curry
17-19 Tier: Dirk
20-25 Tier: Paul, KD

I still have Kobe a little higher than Curry without counting this season and I'd probably take Paul over KD at this point as well, though with the end of this season KD will shorten the gap.

So far everyone has ignored the numbers.

Curry has very little longevity, he is last in this group. If it wasn't for considerable less games I'd put Durant above Kobe, as his metrics are very high. Nowitzki is ahead of Kobe, though not by alot. CP is just impactful and basically every season. His prime is the longest also.

migya wrote:So far everyone has ignored the numbers.

Curry has very little longevity, he is last in this group. If it wasn't for considerable less games I'd put Durant above Kobe, as his metrics are very high. Nowitzki is ahead of Kobe, though not by alot. CP is just impactful and basically every season. His prime is the longest also.

Do you really think that people are not aware of stats that are available on Basketball-Reference for well over a decade?

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:So far everyone has ignored the numbers.

Curry has very little longevity, he is last in this group. If it wasn't for considerable less games I'd put Durant above Kobe, as his metrics are very high. Nowitzki is ahead of Kobe, though not by alot. CP is just impactful and basically every season. His prime is the longest also.

Do you really think that people are not aware of stats that are available on Basketball-Reference for well over a decade?

I didn't say people didn't know about BR, no reason to say that. The stats show different order to some lists here.

migya wrote:So far everyone has ignored the numbers.

Curry has very little longevity, he is last in this group. If it wasn't for considerable less games I'd put Durant above Kobe, as his metrics are very high. Nowitzki is ahead of Kobe, though not by alot. CP is just impactful and basically every season. His prime is the longest also.

At this level, longevity does not mean much, it is really what you can do during peak/prime. DeRozan played for TOR 9 years, but Kawhi was the savior. CP3's prime is characterized by all kinds of unavailable during critical moments, really not that impressive.

You also asked about better career and ranking, really cannot see how you ignore Curry's 2x MVP, leading to Warriors' dynasty 6 finals and 4 championships. That's a better career than going through 5 different teams and never won.

70sFan wrote:For tiers, here is my ranking:

11-16 Tier: Kobe, Curry
17-19 Tier: Dirk
20-25 Tier: Paul, KD

I still have Kobe a little higher than Curry without counting this season and I'd probably take Paul over KD at this point as well, though with the end of this season KD will shorten the gap.

I respect your opinion and your posts are interesting to read, but Dirk could be higher. What players do you include in 11-16 tier

Garnett
Kobe
Curry
Oscar
West
????????

migya wrote:

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:So far everyone has ignored the numbers.

Curry has very little longevity, he is last in this group. If it wasn't for considerable less games I'd put Durant above Kobe, as his metrics are very high. Nowitzki is ahead of Kobe, though not by alot. CP is just impactful and basically every season. His prime is the longest also.

Do you really think that people are not aware of stats that are available on Basketball-Reference for well over a decade?

I didn't say people didn't know about BR, no reason to say that. The stats show different order to some lists here.

We have a lot of discussions about what these numbers show and what not, but you keep talking like it's all that we need.

SpreeS wrote:

70sFan wrote:For tiers, here is my ranking:

11-16 Tier: Kobe, Curry
17-19 Tier: Dirk
20-25 Tier: Paul, KD

I still have Kobe a little higher than Curry without counting this season and I'd probably take Paul over KD at this point as well, though with the end of this season KD will shorten the gap.

I respect your opinion and your posts are interesting to read, but Dirk could be higher. What players do you include in 11-16 tier

Garnett
Kobe
Curry
Oscar
West
????????

Actually in chronological order:

Oscar
West
Bird
K. Malone
Kobe
Curry

I have Garnett 9th or 10th on my list. I don't want another KG discussion here, so let's focus on these players in question.

Dirk is in the same tier with Julius and Robinson to me, though I guess some players from the lower tier (Durant, Paul, Moses) could be argued against them as well.

70sFan wrote:

SpreeS wrote:

70sFan wrote:For tiers, here is my ranking:

11-16 Tier: Kobe, Curry
17-19 Tier: Dirk
20-25 Tier: Paul, KD

I still have Kobe a little higher than Curry without counting this season and I'd probably take Paul over KD at this point as well, though with the end of this season KD will shorten the gap.

I respect your opinion and your posts are interesting to read, but Dirk could be higher. What players do you include in 11-16 tier

Garnett
Kobe
Curry
Oscar
West
????????

Actually in chronological order:

Oscar
West
Bird
K. Malone
Kobe
Curry

I have Garnett 9th or 10th on my list. I don't want another KG discussion here, so let's focus on these players in question.

Dirk is in the same tier with Julius and Robinson to me, though I guess some players from the lower tier (Durant, Paul, Moses) could be argued against them as well.

Yea Oscar/West/Kobe/Curry will be crazy dabates after couple years. I am ok with KG. Malone over Dirk after evaluating PO contribution looks unconvinced....these two like Curry/Paul on less degree for me. Dirk won 5 serries w/o home advantages, Malone lost 8 serries with home advantages.

This is going to be an interesting group to look at for the upcoming top 100. I have all of them in the 11-25 range but where they'll fall exactly I'm not sure. These are all guys who have outstanding careers but are all lacking in one thing or another to truely punch through to top 10.

SpreeS wrote:Malone over Dirk after evaluating PO contribution looks unconvinced....these two like Curry/Paul on less degree for me. Dirk won 5 serries w/o home advantages, Malone lost 8 serries with home advantages.

I am way higher on Malone non-scoring contribution (passing, defense) than most, so that's probably why.

About HCA losses - that's true, but Malone also won 6 series without HCA. Granted, two of them in 2004 but still - 4 series isn't much less than 5.

70sFan wrote:

SpreeS wrote:Malone over Dirk after evaluating PO contribution looks unconvinced....these two like Curry/Paul on less degree for me. Dirk won 5 serries w/o home advantages, Malone lost 8 serries with home advantages.

I am way higher on Malone non-scoring contribution (passing, defense) than most, so that's probably why.

About HCA losses - that's true, but Malone also won 6 series without HCA. Granted, two of them in 2004 but still - 4 series isn't much less than 5.

Dirk 5W - 1L 25pts .591ts 12reb 1.5ast 1.3stl 1.5blk 0.8tov
Malone 6W - 7L 26pts .517ts 11reb 3.2ast 1.2stl 1.0blk 3.0tov

These stats from finals (5th or 7th) serries games. It's bold TS not adj, but gap is huge and difference in tov also big. Looks like Dirk was created for these kind of situations - ice in the veins and Malone strugled a lot. Maybe I am higher on things what converts to winning more.

SpreeS wrote:

70sFan wrote:

SpreeS wrote:Malone over Dirk after evaluating PO contribution looks unconvinced....these two like Curry/Paul on less degree for me. Dirk won 5 serries w/o home advantages, Malone lost 8 serries with home advantages.

I am way higher on Malone non-scoring contribution (passing, defense) than most, so that's probably why.

About HCA losses - that's true, but Malone also won 6 series without HCA. Granted, two of them in 2004 but still - 4 series isn't much less than 5.

Dirk 5W - 1L 25pts .591ts 12reb 1.5ast 1.3stl 1.5blk 0.8tov
Malone 6W - 7L 26pts .517ts 11reb 3.2ast 1.2stl 1.0blk 3.0tov

These stats from finals (5th or 7th) serries games. It's bold TS not adj, but gap is huge and difference in tov also big. Looks like Dirk was created for these kind of situations - ice in the veins and Malone strugled a lot. Maybe I am higher on things what converts to winning more.

The thing is that Jazz offense was still very good even with Malone struggles. I don't blame you for downgrading him due to postseason scoring drop off, it's a fair question about Malone.

According to me, not counting this season

#11 Kobe
#13 Dirk
#16 Curry
#19 Paul
#21 Durant

70sFan wrote:

SpreeS wrote:

70sFan wrote:For tiers, here is my ranking:

11-16 Tier: Kobe, Curry
17-19 Tier: Dirk
20-25 Tier: Paul, KD

I still have Kobe a little higher than Curry without counting this season and I'd probably take Paul over KD at this point as well, though with the end of this season KD will shorten the gap.

I respect your opinion and your posts are interesting to read, but Dirk could be higher. What players do you include in 11-16 tier

Garnett
Kobe
Curry
Oscar
West
????????

Actually in chronological order:

Oscar
West
Bird
K. Malone
Kobe
Curry

I have Garnett 9th or 10th on my list. I don't want another KG discussion here, so let's focus on these players in question.

Dirk is in the same tier with Julius and Robinson to me, though I guess some players from the lower tier (Durant, Paul, Moses) could be argued against them as well.

Your primary criteria is era-relative career value right?

Not sure where you have Kobe's "peak", but IIRC, Ben has it borderline top 20 yet even his inputs end up with Kobe ranking 9th in career corp. Assuming you have kobe's peak higher(i think you do?) I'm wondering where the difference comes from. Is it a higher evaluation of oscar, erving orwest?