Aggregating All-time NBA player rankings

[WestGOAT]

I was thinking of doing a simple player comparison project during the all-star break, would wha I be proposing be interesting / add value?

Would you guys be up for providing your all-time NBA player rankings so I can combine them in a single graph?
Example provided below. So instead of using the lists of ESPN, the Atheletic, Hoopshype, etc, it would actually be the posters on this board. It would be interesting to have a single snapshot to see how polarizing some players can be and what the general consensus is on this board!

I would be using Google Spreadsheets to collect your rankings and a drop-down menu so I don't need to manually check if the player names are consistent.

I will make a seperate topic if there is enough interest!

[Owly]

Some, dated, data along these lines is available here:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1329010
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1576115

Of course it's less convenient for you in terms of having to enter the data and you might be more interested in present poster views but as far as if you wanted something that's already out there to mess around with ... there's some data there.

[dygaction]

Making the most sense overall. KD and Steph's position can be switched with his new championship run. John Stockton, Havlicek, and CP3 did not top 30 on a few lists but I don't think it would change much. Nice to see Isiah Thomas in top 30 for all rankings as winning matters.

[ceoofkobefans]

Hate to see Hakeem and Chris Paul get so heavily underrated. MJ being the unanimous number 1 is funny but makes sense with these being casual rankings

My top 30 would be

1. LeBron
2. Kareem
3. MJ
4. TD
5. Shaq
6. Kobe
7. Hakeem
8. Russell
9. Wilt
10. KG
11. Bird
12. Magic
13. Karl Malone
14. Steph
15. Oscar
16. Dirk
17. Chris Paul
18. Jerry west
19. Kevin Durant
20. David Robinson
21. Julius Erving
22. Dwayne Wade
23. Steve Nash
24. Charles Barkley
25. James Harden
26. John Stockton
27. Moses Malone
28. Patrick Ewing
29. Scottie Pippen
30. Reggie Miller

[Owly]

Making the most sense overall. John Stockton, Havlicek, and CP3 did not top 30 on a few lists but I don't think it would change much. Nice to see Isiah Thomas in top 30 for all rankings as winning matters.

Nobody thinks winning doesn't matter.

People differ in how they perceive and measure contribution to winning and in some instances whether happening to be on a title winning team intrinsically makes a player (or their career) better (e.g. any formula driven list or input into a list or approach which includes ring count).

[dygaction]

Making the most sense overall. John Stockton, Havlicek, and CP3 did not top 30 on a few lists but I don't think it would change much. Nice to see Isiah Thomas in top 30 for all rankings as winning matters.

Nobody thinks winning doesn't matter.

People differ in how they perceive and measure contribution to winning and in some instances whether happening to be on a title winning team intrinsically makes a player (or their career) better (e.g. any formula driven list or input into a list or approach which includes ring count).

Understood. It is just IT seldom makes top 30 list on PC but on all 5 rankings, and I happen to be on the higher of him side so wanted to channel my support.

[ceiling raiser]

This could be fun. I’m currently reworking my GOAT list, but my most recent top 10 was:

Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
LeBron James
Tim Duncan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Steph Curry
Magic Johnson
Kevin Garnett
Hakeem Olajuwon
Wilt Chamberlain

I think it’s very hard not to have LeBron #1 nowadays. Hoping to have a top 30 this week.

[Owly]

Making the most sense overall. John Stockton, Havlicek, and CP3 did not top 30 on a few lists but I don't think it would change much. Nice to see Isiah Thomas in top 30 for all rankings as winning matters.

Nobody thinks winning doesn't matter.

People differ in how they perceive and measure contribution to winning and in some instances whether happening to be on a title winning team intrinsically makes a player (or their career) better (e.g. any formula driven list or input into a list or approach which includes ring count).

Understood. It is just IT seldom makes top 30 list on PC but on all 5 rankings, and I happen to be on the higher of him side so wanted to channel my support.

And that's cool. I happen to be very low on Thomas versus the average. But that's irrelevant to my comment/objection. "Winning matters" as support for a player is a route into a bad debate because as I say I doubt there are many, if any, people who are looking at ranking basketball players from a perspective where they aren't concerned with contribution to winning.

[Narigo]

1.LeBron James
2.Michael Jordan
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
4. Bill Russell
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Tim Duncan
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Magic Johnson
10. Oscar Robertson
11. Kevin Garnett
12. Kobe Bryant
13. Larry Bird
14.Jerry West
15. Karl Malone
16. Dirk Nowitzki
17. Julius Erving
18. David Robinson
19. Stephen Curry
20. Chris Paul
21. Kevin Durant
22. George Mikan
23. Charles Barkley
24. Moses Malone
25. Dwyane Wade
26. Bob Pettit
27. James Harden
28. John Stockton
29. Steve Nash
30. Jason Kidd

[Vox Populi]

ChatGPT can do this for you on a much larger scale. It trawls through the internet, digesting and aggregating the information it finds while learning along the way, to provide you with the best and most accurate response to any question you may have.

Me: Who are the top 10 NBA players of all time?
ChatGPT: The top 10 NBA players of all time are:

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Kobe Bryant
5) Magic Johnson
6) Tim Duncan
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Larry Bird
9) Wilt Chamberlain
10) Hakeem Olajuwon.

So this looks like the Top 10 from aggregating lists all over the world instead of only RealGM users.

I am going to adopt this list as mine, the People's List!

If you don't know what ChatGPT is.

"ChatGPT is a chatbot launched by OpenAI in November 2022. It is built on top of OpenAI's GPT-3 family of large language models, and is fine-tuned with both supervised and reinforcement learning techniques."

If you would like to try it yourself, go to chat.OpenAi.com and register for an account with an email.

[ceiling raiser]

ChatGPT has already done this for you on a much larger scale. It trawls through the internet, aggregates all the information it finds while learning along the way, to provide you with the best and most accurate response to any question you may have.

Me: Who are the top 10 NBA players of all time?
ChatGPT: The top 10 NBA players of all time are:

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Kobe Bryant
5) Magic Johnson
6) Tim Duncan
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Larry Bird
9) Wilt Chamberlain
10) Hakeem Olajuwon.

So this looks like the Top 10 from aggregating lists all over the world instead of only RealGM users.

If you don't know what ChatGPT is.

"ChatGPT is a chatbot launched by OpenAI in November 2022. It is built on top of OpenAI's GPT-3 family of large language models, and is fine-tuned with both supervised and reinforcement learning techniques."

If you would like to try it yourself, go to chat.OpenAi.com and register for an account with an email.

If ChatGPT has Kobe #4, then AI still has a long way to go until the Turing Test is in play.

[Owly]

ChatGPT can do this for you on a much larger scale. It trawls through the internet, digesting and aggregating the information it finds while learning along the way, to provide you with the best and most accurate response to any question you may have.

Me: Who are the top 10 NBA players of all time?
ChatGPT: The top 10 NBA players of all time are:

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Kobe Bryant
5) Magic Johnson
6) Tim Duncan
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Larry Bird
9) Wilt Chamberlain
10) Hakeem Olajuwon.

So this looks like the Top 10 from aggregating lists all over the world instead of only RealGM users.

I am going to adopt this list as mine, the People's List!

If you don't know what ChatGPT is.

"ChatGPT is a chatbot launched by OpenAI in November 2022. It is built on top of OpenAI's GPT-3 family of large language models, and is fine-tuned with both supervised and reinforcement learning techniques."

If you would like to try it yourself, go to chat.OpenAi.com and register for an account with an email.

Without commenting on the list (Kobe, Russell might be the talking points here) suspect the value here would be in things beyond a ranking based on aggregating all others (without even scores/process so you can see how close) e.g. who is divisive and how people got to different ranks with different perspectives, processes etc.

[WestGOAT]

ChatGPT can do this for you on a much larger scale. It trawls through the internet, digesting and aggregating the information it finds while learning along the way, to provide you with the best and most accurate response to any question you may have.

Me: Who are the top 10 NBA players of all time?
ChatGPT: The top 10 NBA players of all time are:

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Kobe Bryant
5) Magic Johnson
6) Tim Duncan
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Larry Bird
9) Wilt Chamberlain
10) Hakeem Olajuwon.

So this looks like the Top 10 from aggregating lists all over the world instead of only RealGM users.

I am going to adopt this list as mine, the People's List!

If you don't know what ChatGPT is.

"ChatGPT is a chatbot launched by OpenAI in November 2022. It is built on top of OpenAI's GPT-3 family of large language models, and is fine-tuned with both supervised and reinforcement learning techniques."

If you would like to try it yourself, go to chat.OpenAi.com and register for an account with an email.

How is this the remotely the same? ChatGPT doesn;t have access to data past 2021, let alone make visuals like this

That said ChatGPT did help me make this visuals

[OhayoKD]

I was thinking of doing a simple player comparison project during the all-star break, would wha I be proposing be interesting / add value?

Would you guys be up for providing your all-time NBA player rankings so I can combine them in a single graph?
Example provided below. So instead of using the lists of ESPN, the Atheletic, Hoopshype, etc, it would actually be the posters on this board. It would be interesting to have a single snapshot to see how polarizing some players can be and what the general consensus is on this board!

I would be using Google Spreadsheets to collect your rankings and a drop-down menu so I don't need to manually check if the player names are consistent.

I will make a seperate topic if there is enough interest!

Are ties fine?

Also assuming you want 30 players ranked which might take some thinking from my part,

[Vox Populi]

How is this the remotely the same? ChatGPT doesn;t have access to data past 2021, let alone make visuals like this

That said ChatGPT did help me make this visuals

I like your visual, it looks cool. ChatGPT can not make those lol.

I was trying to point out that ChatGPT gives you an aggregation of a much larger sample size that should be less biased in theory. Ultimately that seems more important than the visual, even though it looks very nice.

Without commenting on the list (Kobe, Russell might be the talking points here) suspect the value here would be in things beyond a ranking based on aggregating all others (without even scores/process so you can see how close) e.g. who is divisive and how people got to different ranks with different perspectives, processes etc.

Good point. Once this project is done, I would be interested in seeing who all differ from the ChatGPT list, by how much, and what are their biases or perspectives. It makes sense to use ChatGPT's list as the barometer for comparisons, being the list of the people (an aggregation of a much higher number of lists).

[Jaivl]

Sure, take mine. Last time I updated, at the end of the 2022 season:

1 LeBron James
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3 Michael Jordan
4 Bill Russell
5 Tim Duncan
6 Shaquille O’Neal
7 Hakeem Olajuwon
8 Kevin Garnett
9 Wilt Chamberlain
10 Magic Johnson
11 Kobe Bryant
12 Larry Bird
13 Dirk Nowitzki
14 Oscar Robertson
15 Karl Malone
16 Stephen Curry
17 Jerry West
18 David Robinson
19 Chris Paul
20 Julius Erving
21 Kevin Durant
22 Steve Nash
23 Charles Barkley
24 Dwyane Wade
25 Moses Malone
26 Patrick Ewing
27 John Stockton
28 James Harden
29 Rick Barry
30 George Mikan

[ceoofkobefans]

Making the most sense overall. KD and Steph's position can be switched with his new championship run. John Stockton, Havlicek, and CP3 did not top 30 on a few lists but I don't think it would change much. Nice to see Isiah Thomas in top 30 for all rankings as winning matters.

When it comes to measuring how much on court impact a player has, no winning does not matter. What matters is how you EFFECT winning

[ceoofkobefans]

ChatGPT has already done this for you on a much larger scale. It trawls through the internet, aggregates all the information it finds while learning along the way, to provide you with the best and most accurate response to any question you may have.

Me: Who are the top 10 NBA players of all time?
ChatGPT: The top 10 NBA players of all time are:

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Kobe Bryant
5) Magic Johnson
6) Tim Duncan
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Larry Bird
9) Wilt Chamberlain
10) Hakeem Olajuwon.

So this looks like the Top 10 from aggregating lists all over the world instead of only RealGM users.

If you don't know what ChatGPT is.

"ChatGPT is a chatbot launched by OpenAI in November 2022. It is built on top of OpenAI's GPT-3 family of large language models, and is fine-tuned with both supervised and reinforcement learning techniques."

If you would like to try it yourself, go to chat.OpenAi.com and register for an account with an email.

If ChatGPT has Kobe #4, then AI still has a long way to go until the Turing Test is in play.

Yes the issue with this list is Kobe being top 4 (which isn’t that egregious) and not Magic being top 5 MJ being 1 or bill Russell not being here I’m sure

[Cavsfansince84]

ChatGPT can do this for you on a much larger scale. It trawls through the internet, digesting and aggregating the information it finds while learning along the way, to provide you with the best and most accurate response to any question you may have.

Me: Who are the top 10 NBA players of all time?
ChatGPT: The top 10 NBA players of all time are:

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Kobe Bryant
5) Magic Johnson
6) Tim Duncan
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Larry Bird
9) Wilt Chamberlain
10) Hakeem Olajuwon.

So this looks like the Top 10 from aggregating lists all over the world instead of only RealGM users.

I am going to adopt this list as mine, the People's List!

If you don't know what ChatGPT is.

"ChatGPT is a chatbot launched by OpenAI in November 2022. It is built on top of OpenAI's GPT-3 family of large language models, and is fine-tuned with both supervised and reinforcement learning techniques."

If you would like to try it yourself, go to chat.OpenAi.com and register for an account with an email.

Is a form of ai aggregating a list really a great approach when we are given zero context or thinking behind how these lists were formed? I've been seeing lists put out by espn, magazines or random 'experts' for decades and its really driven a lot of the time by either attempting to create debate by placing more recent or popular players way higher than they probably should be or without specific criteria really being stated and adhered to or without much in the way of advanced analysis. In short, most of the lists put out are imo mostly garbage and not a good basis for aggregating into something we can take that seriously.

[wojoaderge]

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Michael Jordan
3. LeBron James
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bill Russell
6. Larry Bird
7. Magic Johnson
8. Tim Duncan
9. George Mikan
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
11. Shaquille O'Neal
12. Moses Malone
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Stephen Curry
15. Oscar Robertson
16. Jerry West
17. Julius Erving
18. Kevin Durant
19. Bob Pettit
20. Chris Paul
21. David Robinson
22. Dirk Nowitzki
23. Dwyane Wade
24. Karl Malone
25. Charles Barkley
26. Kevin Garnett
27. Elgin Baylor
28. John Havlicek
29. James Harden
30. Rick Barry