RealGM

What do you think?

#1
Emphasis on Modern NBA being most competitive era, staple of a franchise that won 5 titles over 15 years, resilient playoff resume, GOAT level defender

#1. DARKO + career plus/minus leader + #1 two/three-year postseason peak “impact” makes a pretty decent shorthand statistical case. Add on the franchise leadership and culture-setting, which I think only Bill Russell has any strong argument over, plus all the win records, and I think it becomes an overall case which in any other sport would be regarded quite highly.

I don't really see a case for Duncan over Kareem, so I'll say #2.

I also don't consider 1999-03 as really being that competitive outside of the Lakers and Spurs.

One spot under Michael Jordan. Obviously.

I'm not sure he has an actual solid, consistent argument over both LeBron and Russell at the same time, so I'll say #2.

#4, behind MJ, LeBron, and KAJ. That's where I have him.

dygaction wrote:#4, behind MJ, LeBron, and KAJ. That's where I have him.

I enjoy your admitting that "anything higher than I have him is unreasonable".

Sometimes it is difficult to read between the lines of a post, not knowing if someone is truly here for conversation or are they simply hovering over their flag pole, screaming and shouting to everyone with a differing opinion of them, ballistically expressing your opinion as correct and being unable to comprehend someone else unless they are in agreement with your righteous and anything-but-incorrect opinion.

I definitely can see Duncan's case for the GOAT, but personally I wouldn't have him over Russell and Kareem at the same time.

I have him 5th personally, which I'm glad isn't controversial here.

Colbinii wrote:

dygaction wrote:#4, behind MJ, LeBron, and KAJ. That's where I have him.

I enjoy your admitting that "anything higher than I have him is unreasonable".

Sometimes it is difficult to read between the lines of a post, not knowing if someone is truly here for conversation or are they simply hovering over their flag pole, screaming and shouting to everyone with a differing opinion of them, ballistically expressing your opinion as correct and being unable to comprehend someone else unless they are in agreement with your righteous and anything-but-incorrect opinion.

I am giving my opinion, and others are welcome to give theirs. I am very high on Tim and think ranking at #4 is highest reasonable from me. What's up with your rant? Maybe you should re-read your words and think about it. Don't think #4 ATG is a humiliation, lol. If we have to all give #1 to be on this board, let me know...

4th or 5th for me.

Honestly, #1 potentially - I can see the argument over LeBron/Jordan because of the value of these two-way big archetype playing at as high of a level he did on both ends may still be understated - mainly defensive value of them in the PS being hard to gauge and could be more valuable than I previously let on, but they could also be argued as the most portable players because of their defensive value as well.

He shows truly GOAT numbers at his peak in the playoffs as is, for example he has the best PS AuPM peak ever and his AuPM understates his value compared to regular APM even in the RS.

There is a bit of noise and i've argued about collinearity in those Spurs teams possibly inflating them but my point is on hypothetical high/low end ranges here and there is nothing truly definitive to point to to say he is that much worse in terms of value.

I think this line of argumentation could extend to pro-cases for Hakeem and KG as well even if it doesn't land them as being the actual GOAT and I think some others on this board agree.

The other main GOAT candidates pre 1990s (Bill, Kareem, Wilt) all have a somewhat relatively high degree of uncertainty for them compared to the modern guys with the lack of data, so there is already that, and you could certainly make favorable arguments for Tim against the other modern ones even without mentioning things such as intangibles in which you could use to paint him in a positive light. I personally rank him 8th though.

EDIT re PS AuPM: If you could actually make a solid case for him having the GOAT peak, then I don't think it's inconsistent to have him over both Russell and Kareem at the same time

Colbinii wrote:

dygaction wrote:#4, behind MJ, LeBron, and KAJ. That's where I have him.

I enjoy your admitting that "anything higher than I have him is unreasonable".

I mean, I think having Ricky Rubio higher than I have him is unreasonable.

He has no case over Jordan, Kareem and Lebron. Top 4 is the highest reasonable spot I can see him.

Jaivl wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

dygaction wrote:#4, behind MJ, LeBron, and KAJ. That's where I have him.

I enjoy your admitting that "anything higher than I have him is unreasonable".

I mean, I think having Ricky Rubio higher than I have him is unreasonable.

Know where you coming from... I mean, if I said #5, behind KG, MJ, LeBron, and KAJ, both of you would be much more friendlier, welcoming to hte club, and Colbinii can save that rant, lol

Definitely has an argument for 1 albeit not for me. However, as others have said, it may be difficult to find criteria that put him above both Russell and Kareem simultaenously.

dygaction wrote:

Jaivl wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
I enjoy your admitting that "anything higher than I have him is unreasonable".

I mean, I think having Ricky Rubio higher than I have him is unreasonable.

Know where you coming from... I mean, if I said #5, behind KG, MJ, LeBron, and KAJ, both of you would be much more friendlier, welcoming to hte club, and Colbinii can save that rant, lol

Nah, because I never think "My ranking is the highest reasonable ranking" because other people could have different criteria. Considering other peoples criteria is reasonable, then another person having a player ranked higher than me is indeed reasonable.

I understand your infatuation with Garnett, but let's leave him out of just 1 of your threads...just one please

Matt15 wrote:He has no case over Jordan, Kareem and Lebron. Top 4 is the highest reasonable spot I can see him.

Don't you read the policing reply from Colbinii #8 and try to be a better poster?

I guess like 3rd, I think I had him 4th the last time I did a list. Hard to find a both reasonable and consistent criteria putting him above all of MJ, Lebron, and Kareem. He falls short of MJ and Lebron for average prime level for sure, and he doesn’t have longevity over Lebron anymore. If you are much lower on Kareem’s defense than most, I can maybe see the case over Kareem but it’s hard to go Duncan over all 3 when his peak isn’t any better and he appears to fall short in average prime level.

Colbinii wrote:

dygaction wrote:

Jaivl wrote:I mean, I think having Ricky Rubio higher than I have him is unreasonable.

Know where you coming from... I mean, if I said #5, behind KG, MJ, LeBron, and KAJ, both of you would be much more friendlier, welcoming to hte club, and Colbinii can save that rant, lol

Nah, because I never think "My ranking is the highest reasonable ranking" because other people could have different criteria. Considering other peoples criteria is reasonable, then another person having a player ranked higher than me is indeed reasonable.

I understand your infatuation with Garnett, but let's leave him out of just 1 of your threads...just one please

To have a healthier conversation, following your logic, the question to any players highest reasonable ranking would be #1, otherwise you need to shut up. To me, TD's highest ranking is #4 behind the three I listed. My intention with he is exactly at my #4 was to express my fond of him as I just posted in another top 30 threads. You just needed to vent or rant but picked the wrong thread.