OhayoKD wrote:AEnigma wrote:I think Team 2 is comfortably more modern and better fitting. They have the top three generators of offence and then a ton of complementary defensive stars around them, with a significant spacing advantage and no particularly strong perimetre defenders of concern other than Jason Kidd (who is a deeper bench piece anyway with how those rotations seem to be set up). Giannis/Wilt is defensively quite potent, but I am sure that is enough to disrupt the passing and shooting of Team 2, and offensively it is a rougher fit. I imagine they are staggered for Malone/Wilt and Giannis/Embiid, but then that still leaves the question of whether that team is efficient enough to outpace Team 2.
OTOH Wilt might be the best era-relative peak ever(took the great team to 7 with limited help multiple times, led the greatest team ever, ect)
You said 2023 NBA. If you wanted to talk more abstractly, then maybe there is a conversation, but 2023 Wilt is not 1960s Wilt.
and Giannis for my money is a better player in an absolute sense than anyone on team 2 with even 3rd best Kobe having a case vs anyone. Assuming a degree of translation, I'd say team 1 has a sizable talent advantage
Kobe aside, the most talented players on Team 1 are all stacked into the frontcourt — and again, I do not think Malone has much cause to gain absolute value playing in 2023. Nor Drexler, nor Kidd. And in any case I recall you assessing Kawhi’s peak as a lot closer to Kobe’s than to Malone’s, with Malone’s seeming to be more in line with Draymond’s by your eye.
and I don't think Wilt is necccesarily a terrible o-fit using his more pass-focused incarnations.
Terrible, no, but team 2 clearly sets the standard.
I think Giannis also is a very effective defensive counter for dray/curry essentially projecting as a much more atheletic version of the 2016 Lebron on that end and Jokic might have trouble in the post with Wilt there.
The main offensive threat there looks like it would clearly be a Steph/Jokic two-man game, and I do not think Giannis blows that up, no — or at least not without a better guard defender, but then playing Kidd with Giannis creates further spacing issues,
and that takes away from the ability to defend those Luka bench units.
Team 2 also allows Curry to go fully off-ball, so that is a tough ask for Kidd even if that does become the primary assignment.
On the other hand, Jokic is a straight liability as a defensive big(and yes, I think Kobe, one of the best spacers of the 90's and klay will suffice here)
Guarded by Frazier and Kawhi, with rotational hep of Marion and Kirilenko? That is the thing, Jokic is a defensive issue… but this is basically a perfect defence around him.
And for that matter, Klay and Kobe are not exactly high efficiency options, and Price’s efficiency took a major hit against postseason defences.
and dray is a kind of terrible matchup vs Giannis
Not really sure what that is based off, but regardless I do not think Giannis playing next to a traditional big is really the recipe to any particularly successful offence, and certainly not one outpacing Team 2.
Kawhi excels as a man defender, not a help defender,
Okay?
and without the raptors pairing him with gasol in a 3-man wall with other clear positives, he didn't really have the agility to handle him.
I assumed these were peaks.
That's not to mention Kobe who is a maybe the best ever tough-shot maker compensating for giannis's biggest weakness.
Kobe can make tough shots, but a.) he definitely took a hit from elite defenders (Bowen, 2009 Rockets…), and b.) that is still not a path to high efficiency in 2023.
On that note, I don't think team 2 has the personell to punish him defensively and I think Kobe could do some work hunting Curry.
Lol okay I recognise you want to play devil’s advocate here but that is an absurd take even with that in mind.