RealGM

Peak only which duo would you rather have?

Peak means bubble AD so them lol

It can go either way. I’m pretty high on Hakeem and Wade both for peaks. Lebron is Lebron and is the highest peak here, but Hakeem gives him a run for his money. If you run with the assumption that bubble AD is replicable more times than not, Lebron and AD should be favored. I still see that playoff run from AD as sort of a fluke and outlier considering he hasn’t come close to it any other time. I don’t know how to weigh that, but I think even if you take that AD at face value, Wade/Hakeem has a case. Lebron/AD is probably the better pick, but my Wade homerism probably won’t allow it.

Peak has to be at least a 2 year stretch, so this is easily Dream/Wade

Definitely LeBron and Davis for me. Peak LeBron's clearly a level above the rest, and while I might have peak Wade over peak Davis, the gap's smaller.

The bigger difference though is the fit. LeBron and Davis fit perfectly together. Davis' off-ball work is nice with LeBron's on-ball mastery. LeBron prefers a big who can stretch the floor in a pick and pop situation and help hold down the defense, and AD definitely fits the bill. AD's unreal lob potential makes it even better.

Wade's driving game might see slight diminishing returns with Hakeem and his defender -- it's not exactly the open lane Wade might prefer. Likewise, Hakeem's at his offensive best when surrounded by better-than-league-average shooters... this helps his scoring threat by making it harder to double him, while simplifying the reads for Hakeem's kickout passes. Wade definitely doesn't fit this bill. I'm open to the idea that the Hakeem/Wade pair might be better on defense, particularly if you're high on Hakeem's defense... but the offensive gap is just bigger to me.

My biggest concern with LeBron/Davis is injury. AD's not the most durable. His hesitancy to get more physical as small-ball 5 also hurts a bit -- my guess is this comes out of AD's durability issues. That said, Wade's not exactly the most durable player either. And if both co-stars are getting injured, I'd definitely prefer LeBron over Hakeem.

2006 Wade + 1994 Hakeem

This is pretty easily Wade-Dream for me. Wade was neck at neck with Bron in his prime but Dream was just a better player than peak Davis.

Davis was a Tier S player for two months -- if that's enough for a peak, it has to clearly be LeBron/Davis.

Still, "normal" peak Davis is a... high +4s or +5 player? That's close enough to Wade where superior fit and LeBron's advantage over Hakeem bridges the gap, I think.

Eh, even bubble Davis is by far the worst player here imo. Although the team compensates by also having the best player in this comparison, I do think Wade/Hakeem is just straight up better (and way more reliable if we're taking health into account).

Dutchball97 wrote:Eh, even bubble Davis is by far the worst player here imo.

List of players Bubble Davis is "by far" worse than:

Jaivl wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:Eh, even bubble Davis is by far the worst player here imo.

List of players Bubble Davis is "by far" worse than:

Spoiler:

You have 2020 AD as a GOAT tier peak? Sheesh that's bullish. He wasn't even the best player on his own team that year.

Dutchball97 wrote:

Jaivl wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:Eh, even bubble Davis is by far the worst player here imo.

List of players Bubble Davis is "by far" worse than:

Spoiler:

You have 2020 AD as a GOAT tier peak? Sheesh that's bullish. He wasn't even the best player on his own team that year.

No, as I don't think Bubble Davis is a "real" Davis, just an absurdly hot streak. He did play close to GOAT level for some time, though.

Just to give a range of where I have him, for ~two months he shot at peak Dirk-like percentages getting assisted on a similar % (actually lower than 2011 Dirk, robust self-creation for a big), finished at peak LeBron levels, and coupled that with best-in-the-league defense AND was healthy!

Jaivl wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:

Jaivl wrote:List of players Bubble Davis is "by far" worse than:

Spoiler:

You have 2020 AD as a GOAT tier peak? Sheesh that's bullish. He wasn't even the best player on his own team that year.

No, as I don't think Bubble Davis is a "real" Davis, just an absurdly hot streak. He did play close to GOAT level for some time, though.

Just to give a range of where I have him, for ~two months he shot at peak Dirk-like percentages getting assisted on a similar % (actually lower than 2011 Dirk, robust self-creation for a big), finished at peak LeBron levels, and coupled that with best-in-the-league defense AND was healthy!

Hmm, how many other best 2 month runs have you looked at to compare it to?

eminence wrote:

Jaivl wrote:

Dutchball97 wrote:
You have 2020 AD as a GOAT tier peak? Sheesh that's bullish. He wasn't even the best player on his own team that year.

No, as I don't think Bubble Davis is a "real" Davis, just an absurdly hot streak. He did play close to GOAT level for some time, though.

Just to give a range of where I have him, for ~two months he shot at peak Dirk-like percentages getting assisted on a similar % (actually lower than 2011 Dirk, robust self-creation for a big), finished at peak LeBron levels, and coupled that with best-in-the-league defense AND was healthy!

Hmm, how many other best 2 month runs have you looked at to compare it to?

2 month playoff runs*

Jaivl wrote:

eminence wrote:

Jaivl wrote:No, as I don't think Bubble Davis is a "real" Davis, just an absurdly hot streak. He did play close to GOAT level for some time, though.

Just to give a range of where I have him, for ~two months he shot at peak Dirk-like percentages getting assisted on a similar % (actually lower than 2011 Dirk, robust self-creation for a big), finished at peak LeBron levels, and coupled that with best-in-the-league defense AND was healthy!

Hmm, how many other best 2 month runs have you looked at to compare it to?

2 month playoff runs*

Makes it a bit more believable, I’d still stop short of GOAT tier

Do people just forget that he was All-NBA first team in 2017-18 (3rd in MVP voting) kicked the **** out of the Blazers as lower seed to win a playoff series and then came back next year in 2018-19 in the convo for best player (17 game stretch before the trade request 33-15-4-2-2) before his trade request shut him down for the rest of the year. And then 2020 most had him 2nd or 3rd behind Lebron/ Giannis.

He was a top 2-5 player for 3 straight healthy seasons with 30 games of 28-11-3 in the playoffs.

He's been injured since they title but there's a reason the Lakers and everyone else would have traded their entire rosters for him and that he made NBA75. His resume before the injuries these past few years was that good.

eminence wrote:

Jaivl wrote:

eminence wrote:
Hmm, how many other best 2 month runs have you looked at to compare it to?

2 month playoff runs*

Makes it a bit more believable, I’d still stop short of GOAT tier

So would I, hence the "close to GOAT level".

Jaivl wrote:

eminence wrote:

Jaivl wrote:2 month playoff runs*

Makes it a bit more believable, I’d still stop short of GOAT tier

So would I, hence the "close to GOAT level".

I was getting conflicting messages with 'S Tier' and 'close to GOAT level' - but explicitly not GOAT level. To me it's one or the other, but we all have our way of wording things. Better understood now.

JLei wrote:Do people just forget that he was All-NBA first team in 2017-18 (3rd in MVP voting) kicked the **** out of the Blazers as lower seed to win a playoff series and then came back next year in 2018-19 in the convo for best player (17 game stretch before the trade request 33-15-4-2-2) before his trade request shut him down for the rest of the year. And then 2020 most had him 2nd or 3rd behind Lebron/ Giannis.

He was a top 2-5 player for 3 straight healthy seasons with 30 games of 28-11-3 in the playoffs.

He's been injured since they title but there's a reason the Lakers and everyone else would have traded their entire rosters for him and that he made NBA75. His resume before the injuries these past few years was that good.

Still don't see how that's anywhere close to the Kareems, Jordans and LeBrons of the world.

eminence wrote:

Jaivl wrote:

eminence wrote:
Makes it a bit more believable, I’d still stop short of GOAT tier

So would I, hence the "close to GOAT level".

I was getting conflicting messages with 'S Tier' and 'close to GOAT level' - but explicitly not GOAT level. To me it's one or the other, but we all have our way of wording things. Better understood now.

English hard