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I'd expect ~70% of people to vote for Jordan here, ~20% for LeBron, and maybe ~10% Kareem.

Really curious who people's GOAT picks are here, and why.

Discuss!!!

I don't like LeBron's playstyle at all but it probably has to be him. He has too many MVP-level seasons to ignore. Unless there is something systemically missed by impact data, I think the conversation starts and ends with him for me.

Can see cases for LeBron/Jordan/Kareem/Russell/Wilt/Duncan/Magic (after the top 4, much tougher arguments).

I don't think of longevity in a vacuum though. All-Time Seasons >> Strong MVP Seasons >> Weak MVP Seasons >> All-NBA Seasons, so there is a big dropoff for guys who were just top 10-15 for a long time. That said, operational definitions for these four tiers is tough.

I gave Lebron the edge this year. MJ loses on longevity

Russell

Those percentages seem more in line with what you'd expect from the general board. I think MJ and LeBron will divide up most with LeBron probably getting a bit more as well as Kareem and Russell getting some traction. Maybe 1-2 votes for Duncan or Wilt.

So like 40% LeBron, 35% MJ, 10% Kareem, 10% Russell, 5% "others".

ty 4191 wrote:I'd expect ~70% of people to vote for Jordan here, ~20% for LeBron, and maybe ~10% Kareem.

Really curious who people's GOAT picks are here, and why.

Discuss!!!

Well if you wait a few months you can see a definitive version.

This is what it was three years ago:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2004777
Hard to see most of those arguments becoming weaker.

I don't quite like the term "GOAT", as basketball is very nuanced and careers for all-time great players are all different stories. For what it's worth, my view / analytical lens leads me to the opinion that James has the most valuable career of all time - a feat established before the scoring record. I think 2020 (posting an All-time level season at age 35) reinforced this notion and 2016/2017 was when James became a very legitimate GOAT candidate.

More on the nuance, I think a rational approach depending on what one values should yield four GOAT candidates in Russell, Abdul-Jabbar, Jordan, and James (chronological, for simplicity)

LBJ

1a) MJ 1B) Russell

LeBron.

See reasonable arguments for Duncan, KAJ, Russell.

Why would you expect MJ to get 70% on a board that voted LeBron #1 after the 2020 season? That makes no sense.

Lebron
Kareem, Russell and MJ have reasonable arguments to me, maybe Wilt and Duncan but that's a stretch for me

Why would you expect that on a board obviously biased towards Lebron?

Have you seen how many posts the Lebron Thread has on here compared to any other player?

Durant's thread has 4 pages and he's a major player and major storyline in the league. Lebron's thread has 175 pages and he's on a non-playoff team.

LeBron
Russell
Kareem
Jordan

I have traditionally voted Russell, Jordan, Wilt, Kareem but LeBron has a very strong argument for #1 and I don't know which way I will come down when we next do the top 100.

I value longevity less than most because it's dependent on lots of factors outside of the player's control. For instance Lebron got drafted out of high school, plays in an era where all athletes benefit from improved medicine and training and has aged into a more offensive era.

I have #1 Russell #2 Jordan and then a fairly large gap to Kareem/Lebron.

Djoker wrote:I value longevity less than most because it's dependent on lots of factors outside of the player's control. For instance Lebron got drafted out of high school, plays in an era where all athletes benefit from improved medicine and training and has aged into a more offensive era.

I have #1 Russell #2 Jordan and then a fairly large gap to Kareem/Lebron.

The only player who was drafted between 2003 to 2006 who still play at a high level is LBJ and maybe CP3,so LBJ deserve huge credit for that.And because of the great longevity of LBJ and Kareem,their peak are so underrated...LBJ won 4 MVP in 5 years at one point and KAJ had like 6 MVP in his first 12 years.LBJ is in the top 5 all-time at least since 2016

1 - Jordan
2 - Russell
3 - Kareem

Homer38 wrote:

Djoker wrote:I value longevity less than most because it's dependent on lots of factors outside of the player's control. For instance Lebron got drafted out of high school, plays in an era where all athletes benefit from improved medicine and training and has aged into a more offensive era.

I have #1 Russell #2 Jordan and then a fairly large gap to Kareem/Lebron.

The only player who was drafted between 2003 to 2006 who still play at a high level is LBJ and maybe CP3,so LBJ deserve huge credit for that.And because of the great longevity of LBJ and Kareem,their peak are so underrated...LBJ won 4 MVP in 5 years at one point and KAJ had like 6 MVP in his first 12 years.LBJ is in the top 5 all-time at least since 2016

4 MVP's in 5 years is a moot point. All GOAT candidates could have won MVP every year in their prime.

But yes Lebron would have great longevity in any era. Still hard to deny that he was a major benefactor of the things I mentioned that he had no control over.

I think Bill Russell, KAJ, MJ, and LeBron all have strong case's for GOAT and you won't get any argument from me if you choose any of those.

Personally LeBron is the GOAT imo. Inarguably the greatest all around player of all time , top 2 greatest peak of all time, top 3 greatest career of all time if not the greatest, extraordinary longevity, did the most with less out of any superstar, highest expectations out of any superstar and somehow exceeded it(I don't think anyone would've predicted him becoming the all time leading scorer) . Pretty clear for me.

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