Lebron on Lakers from 1980-'99

Matt15 · Post #1 » by **Matt15** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:50 pm

Say Lebron gets drafted by the Lakers instead of Magic. How many titles would he win the Lakers from 1980-'99.

80 Lakers-04 Lebron
81 Lakers-05 Lebron
82 Lakers-06 Lebron
83 Lakers-07 Lebron
84 Lakers-08 Lebron
85 Lakers-09 Lebron
86 Lakers-10 Lebron
87 Lakers-11 Lebron
88 Lakers-12 Lebron
89 Lakers-13 Lebron
90 Lakers-14 Lebron
91 Lakers-15 Lebron
92 Lakers-16 Lebron
93 Lakers-17 Lebron
94 Lakers-18 Lebron
95 Lakers-19 Lebron
96 Lakers-20 Lebron
97 Lakers-21 Lebron
98 Lakers-22 Lebron
99 Lakers-23 Lebron

Colbinii · Post #2 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:01 pm

Titles in 82, 84, 85, 87, 88, 89, 96, 97, 98, 99

They have a better chance than LAL actually did in 86, 90, 91-95

This breaks down to 1 additional title for LeBron compared to Magic during Magic's "Prime" and 4 additional titles post-prime.

70sFan · Post #3 » by **70sFan** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:15 pm

I think a lot, but:

1. I don't think people understand how hard it is to win 8+ rings. I don't say it would be impossible for James, but I definitely wouldn't bet on it.
2. I am not sure James would have stayed in the Lakers for 20 years in the first place.

DNice68 · Post #4 » by **DNice68** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:32 pm

70sFan wrote:I think a lot, but:

1. I don't think people understand how hard it is to win 8+ rings. I don't say it would be impossible for James, but I definitely wouldn't bet on it.
2. I am not sure James would have stayed in the Lakers for 20 years in the first place.

Would they still be getting Shaq and Kobe would be the question for that!

1993Playoffs · Post #5 » by **1993Playoffs** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:36 pm

I won’t answer yet

but man that really shows you how long his prime is

His prime spans the entire Magic bird rivalry, MJs entire Career, and he’d still be averaging 30ppg right before 2000 Shaq That’s insane

Colbinii · Post #6 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:38 pm

DNice68 wrote:
70sFan wrote:I think a lot, but:

1. I don't think people understand how hard it is to win 8+ rings. I don't say it would be impossible for James, but I definitely wouldn't bet on it.
2. I am not sure James would have stayed in the Lakers for 20 years in the first place.

Would they still be getting Shaq and Kobe would be the question for that!

Yup, nothing else changes.

wojoaderge · Post #7 » by **wojoaderge** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:49 pm

Would Kareem have to be a stretch 5?

70sFan · Post #8 » by **70sFan** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:51 pm

wojoaderge wrote:Would Kareem have to be a stretch 5?

Davis didn't have to, so I wouldn't expect that from Kareem either. Young James with older Jabbar is an odd fit though, I have to admit that. Older LeBron would be much better for that.

Colbinii · Post #9 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:53 pm

wojoaderge wrote:Would Kareem have to be a stretch 5?

Davis didn't need to. Varejao didn't need to. Andersen didn't need to. Mozgov didn't need to. Thomas Bryant didn't need to. Tristan Thompson didn't.

Why would Kareem? Does anyone here actually think one of the greatest passers and scorers ever would somehow require a stretch 5?

Colbinii · Post #10 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:54 pm

70sFan wrote:
wojoaderge wrote:Would Kareem have to be a stretch 5?

Davis didn't have to, so I wouldn't expect that from Kareem either. Young James with older Jabbar is an odd fit though, I have to admit that. Older LeBron would be much better for that.

Offensively it may be odd but it would work great--LeBron was a terrific playmaker and passer from day 1.

Defensively, man, that team would truly destroy the 1980s.

wojoaderge · Post #11 » by **wojoaderge** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:55 pm

Colbinii wrote:
wojoaderge wrote:Would Kareem have to be a stretch 5?

Davis didn't need to. Varejao didn't need to. Andersen didn't need to. Mozgov didn't need to. Thomas Bryant didn't need to. Tristan Thompson didn't.

Why would Kareem? Does anyone here actually think one of the greatest passers and scorers ever would somehow require a stretch 5?

Ask Bosh and Love. I'm half kidding though

rk2023 · Post #12 » by **rk2023** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:01 pm

wojoaderge wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
wojoaderge wrote:Would Kareem have to be a stretch 5?

Davis didn't need to. Varejao didn't need to. Andersen didn't need to. Mozgov didn't need to. Thomas Bryant didn't need to. Tristan Thompson didn't.

Why would Kareem? Does anyone here actually think one of the greatest passers and scorers ever would somehow require a stretch 5?

Ask Bosh and Love. I'm half kidding though

2011-14 Heat with James and Bosh on, sans Wade: 114.3 ORTG & 9.8 Net

2015-17 Cavs with James and Love on, sans Kyrie: 116.5 ORTG & 11.8 Net

It’s really funny how “stretch big” is tossed around as an insult, yet represents a role conducive to winning and a tactic to maximize offensive efficacy. Both Bosh and Love were able to scale up their volume and efficiency with the reduction of a second volume scorer from these respective lineup permutations as well.

OhayoKD · Post #13 » by **OhayoKD** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:03 pm

70sFan wrote:
wojoaderge wrote:Would Kareem have to be a stretch 5?

Davis didn't have to, so I wouldn't expect that from Kareem either. Young James with older Jabbar is an odd fit though, I have to admit that. Older LeBron would be much better for that.

Young lebron fits kareem better on defense though. That could be an all-timer on that end

rk2023 · Post #14 » by **rk2023** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:05 pm

This is a really interesting Time Machine argument, as I’m unsure straight out of high school onto the 1980 Lakers would be possible. If it’s a time-specific era transplant, I wonder where he’d go to college / how many years he would spend in NCAA / how do scouts view him compared to Moncrief, Bird, and Magic - so on. I’d need to think of the prompt as is though

wojoaderge · Post #15 » by **wojoaderge** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:34 pm

rk2023 wrote:
wojoaderge wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Davis didn't need to. Varejao didn't need to. Andersen didn't need to. Mozgov didn't need to. Thomas Bryant didn't need to. Tristan Thompson didn't.

Why would Kareem? Does anyone here actually think one of the greatest passers and scorers ever would somehow require a stretch 5?

Ask Bosh and Love. I'm half kidding though

2011-14 Heat with James and Bosh on, sans Wade: 114.3 ORTG & 9.8 Net

2015-17 Cavs with James and Love on, sans Kyrie: 116.5 ORTG & 11.8 Net

It’s really funny how “stretch big” is tossed around as an insult, yet represents a role conducive to winning and a tactic to maximize offensive efficacy. Both Bosh and Love were able to scale up their volume and efficiency with the reduction of a second volume scorer from these respective lineup permutations as well.

Kareem shooting 3s then

PistolPeteJR · Post #16 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:54 pm

70sFan wrote:I think a lot, but:

1. I don't think people understand how hard it is to win 8+ rings. I don't say it would be impossible for James, but I definitely wouldn't bet on it.
2. I am not sure James would have stayed in the Lakers for 20 years in the first place.

If he wins 1, let alone 2-3 titles in his first 7-year stint, for a top-2 storied franchise led by a competent FO, I highly doubt he leaves.

Owly · Post #17 » by **Owly** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:56 pm

70sFan wrote:I think a lot, but:

1. I don't think people understand how hard it is to win 8+ rings. I don't say it would be impossible for James, but I definitely wouldn't bet on it.
2. I am not sure James would have stayed in the Lakers for 20 years in the first place.

On 2 any reasons why? I mean we're never sure but it's enough to raise it as a concern?

Remember this is pre-individual max. I think easier to extend before contracts expire, too.
LeBron seemed to want LA (and the Lakers) IRL.
Between Kareem and playing in the West the Lakers were in a great position to win titles and legacy and fame (LA helps here).
Jerry Buss was happy throw long term money at his stars.
The Lakers were briefly "down" for the Lakers at a point but (1) that's far less the case with LeBron, (b) not like for like ... he has to play on one roster with a near -4 SRS ... have you seen some of the teams with him off the floor.

As highlighted assuming we're playing this deck stacked version where he gets to keep Eddie Jones and Shaq actual IRL draft slots despite improvement and cap consumed and still get to reload with Scott and Worthy.

To reiterate: great team (mostly, and with unlike IRL deck stacking in terms of circumstances, largely guaranteeing stars), star location, location we know he likes, weak-on-contenders conference for an extended spell, happy to spend owner and I think crucially, often overlooked in loyalty discussions, the team can pay substantially more than others and if he's happy with the security, don't ever have to let him hit the market. Oh and free agency is compensated for a chunk of that career too.

There's no certainty, but it's a great place to lock into (especially with the quality and guarantee of players) and the cap rules as far as they exist (they don't at the very start) make a star moving that much less likely.

Owly · Post #18 » by **Owly** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:01 pm

Colbinii wrote:Titles in 82, 84, 85, 87, 88, 89, 96, 97, 98, 99

They have a better chance than LAL actually did in 86, 90, 91-95

This breaks down to 1 additional title for LeBron compared to Magic during Magic's "Prime" and 4 additional titles post-prime.

Better chance in '81 given Magic's absence then poor performance in the short series.

Heej · Post #19 » by **Heej** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:07 pm

70sFan wrote:
wojoaderge wrote:Would Kareem have to be a stretch 5?

Davis didn't have to, so I wouldn't expect that from Kareem either. Young James with older Jabbar is an odd fit though, I have to admit that. Older LeBron would be much better for that.

Young LeBron actually had some explosive off-ball cuts. Think Kareem would set him up a decent amount.

migya · Post #20 » by **migya** » Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:44 am

Worthy scored like he did because Magic passed so much and so well, he doesn't with Lebron. Lebron and Kareem wouldn't be such a good fit unless Lebron is #2 until 1983 at least. Pistons still win in 89, and Bulls still win 96-98. Van Exel has no fit without the ball and the fit is not good. Kobe, Lebron and Shaq wouldn't fit, Kobe would leave early. They only contend in Lebron's defensive prime, which would end by around 92/93. Nice pairing with Shaq but the Lakers got smashed by the Jazz in 97 and 98, Spurs in 99.