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The goal is to keep teams to an average of about 50 PPG:

Starting 5: 2 HOFs, 3 All Star Caliber players.

Bench: 5 Role Players

As you can see you don't need much of an offense to win games.

Starting 5 :

PG: Jrue Holiday
SG: Tony Allen
SF: Ron Artest
PF: KG
C: Hakeem Olajuwon

Bench

PG: Avery Bradley (Peak Celtics PG)
SG: Bruce Bowen
SF: Shawn Marion
PF: AK 47
C: Robert Williams III

mdonnelly1989 wrote:Starting 5 :

PG: Jrue Holiday
SG: Tony Allen
SF: Ron Artest
PF: KG
C: Hakeem Olajuwon

Bench

PG: Avery Bradley (Peak Celtics PG)
SG: Bruce Bowen
SF: Shawn Marion
PF: AK 47
C: Robert Williams III

This team has a lot of prolific thieves, which might not be good for keeping the score down as live ball turnovers will often lead to very brief offensive possessions.

I think I would be inclined (with a 50ppg target) towards less "productive" defenders. Dumars, Rodman, Jarron Collins, Oakley, Mason, Deng, Prince, Elie, Vern Fleming, Greg Minor. Tending towards, low mistake, stay in front of your man, "grindy" defenders to eat up the clock. Could add more shot blocking in there, though help stuff carries some risk and I think less upside if the vision here don't let your man get by you.

Bill Russell / Larry Nance, Sr. / Draymond Green or Kevin Garnett (whichever the reader thinks can more reliably defend smaller and faster players on the perimetre) / Luol Deng / Ben Simmons

Andrew Bogut / Shane Battier / Andre Roberson / Danny Green / Michael Cooper

Starting lineup is just to stack all-stars. Realistically would play the people who can defend quick guards. Good situation for Simmons, though; zero offensive expectations!

I would make sure to have at least 3 good ballhandlers on the floor at all time so you could slow down the offenses without getting stripped or trapped. Big men who can run and are willing passers. Draymond Green and Ben Simmons are perfect choices if you can get it through Draymond's head that we want to take the full shot clock every possession.

I would make sure to have at least 3 good ballhandlers on the floor at all time so you could slow down the offenses without getting stripped or trapped. Big men who can run and are willing passers. Draymond Green and Ben Simmons are perfect choices if you can get it through Draymond's head that we want to take the full shot clock every possession. Michael Cooper, Nate McMillan, plus John Stockton to run a deliberate offense if you don't want to lose every game.

PG: Nate McMillan
SG: Tony Allen
SF: Ron Artest
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Bill Russell

Bench

Mookie Blaylock
Tayshaun Prince
Bruce Bowen
Andrei Kirilenko (non-peak)
Joakim Noah (non-peak)

mdonnelly1989 wrote:The goal is to keep teams to an average of about 50 PPG:

Starting 5: 2 HOFs, 3 All Star Caliber players.

Bench: 5 Role Players

As you can see you don't need much of an offense to win games.

Going to make this more interesting and try to draft a team that also can be decent on offense.

Lineup
Marc Gasol, JJJ, Pippen, Lebron, Lonzo.
Bench
Looney, Bowen, Marion, Caruso, Avery Bradley


Relatively low-risk/high value d at every spot(cashing in the "hof" for positional goathood with the wings) for a quality "per-possesion" defense but also putting a couple viable helios(including the most viable helio ever) who can slow the game down on offense and greatly limit the # of possessions(what happened in 2015 more or less).

penbeast0 wrote:I would make sure to have at least 3 good ballhandlers on the floor at all time so you could slow down the offenses without getting stripped or trapped. Big men who can run and are willing passers. Draymond Green and Ben Simmons are perfect choices if you can get it through Draymond's head that we want to take the full shot clock every possession.

Simmons and Dray prefer transition though? A singular all-time helio like cp3, harden, or lebron is probably more useful for "limiting # of possessions" than multiple guys who rely on being able to push the pace in transition

OhayoKD wrote:

mdonnelly1989 wrote:The goal is to keep teams to an average of about 50 PPG:

Starting 5: 2 HOFs, 3 All Star Caliber players.

Bench: 5 Role Players

As you can see you don't need much of an offense to win games.

Going to make this more interesting and try to draft a team that also can be decent on offense.

Lineup
Marc Gasol, JJJ, Pippen, Lebron, Lonzo.
Bench
Looney, Bowen, Marion, Caruso, Avery Bradley


Relatively low-risk/high value d at every spot(cashing in the "hof" for positional goathood with the wings) for a quality "per-possesion" defense but also putting a couple viable helios(including the most viable helio ever) who can slow the game down on offense and greatly limit the # of possessions(what happened in 2015 more or less).

penbeast0 wrote:I would make sure to have at least 3 good ballhandlers on the floor at all time so you could slow down the offenses without getting stripped or trapped. Big men who can run and are willing passers. Draymond Green and Ben Simmons are perfect choices if you can get it through Draymond's head that we want to take the full shot clock every possession.

Simmons and Dray prefer transition though? A singular all-time helio like cp3, harden, or lebron is probably more useful for "limiting # of possessions" than multiple guys who rely on being able to push the pace in transition

CP3 I can see having the same role I looked at Stockton for as the slow it down helio playmaker, maybe better as he is one of the GOATS at turnover differential. I don't think LeBron and Harden's egos would let them buy into scoring as little as this idea would require unless they really had a strong winning start. Both seem too invested in their identity as great scorers.

penbeast0 wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:

mdonnelly1989 wrote:The goal is to keep teams to an average of about 50 PPG:

Starting 5: 2 HOFs, 3 All Star Caliber players.

Bench: 5 Role Players

As you can see you don't need much of an offense to win games.

Going to make this more interesting and try to draft a team that also can be decent on offense.

Lineup
Marc Gasol, JJJ, Pippen, Lebron, Lonzo.
Bench
Looney, Bowen, Marion, Caruso, Avery Bradley


Relatively low-risk/high value d at every spot(cashing in the "hof" for positional goathood with the wings) for a quality "per-possesion" defense but also putting a couple viable helios(including the most viable helio ever) who can slow the game down on offense and greatly limit the # of possessions(what happened in 2015 more or less).

penbeast0 wrote:I would make sure to have at least 3 good ballhandlers on the floor at all time so you could slow down the offenses without getting stripped or trapped. Big men who can run and are willing passers. Draymond Green and Ben Simmons are perfect choices if you can get it through Draymond's head that we want to take the full shot clock every possession.

Simmons and Dray prefer transition though? A singular all-time helio like cp3, harden, or lebron is probably more useful for "limiting # of possessions" than multiple guys who rely on being able to push the pace in transition

CP3 I can see having the same role I looked at Stockton for as the slow it down helio playmaker, maybe better as he is one of the GOATS at turnover differential. I don't think LeBron and Harden's egos would let them buy into scoring as little as this idea would require unless they really had a strong winning start. Both seem too invested in their identity as great scorers.

Well I would raise you the 2015 NBA finals as my counterpoint. 56% ast:8%tov with slow ugly basketball nearly every possession. Lebron loves to try to play into the "i'm actually magic" ****, so I'd be surprised if he wasn't willing, or at least, more willing than CP3 to go all the way.

I'd also expect my team to wreck the league so I think you'll get your strong winning start

Given a winning start, most players and almost all great players will buy in. The trick is to hold them together in bad streaks where a hardnose like Paul or Stockton who isn't about scoring can be invaluable. That said, I am good with your thinking as well.

penbeast0 wrote:Given a winning start, most players and almost all great players will buy in. The trick is to hold them together in bad streaks where a hardnose like Paul or Stockton who isn't about scoring can be invaluable. That said, I am good with your thinking as well.

Was paul really "not about scoring" mentally?

Relative to LeBron and Harden, yes. Relative to Stockton, not so much.

penbeast0 wrote:Relative to LeBron and Harden, yes. Relative to Stockton, not so much.

I guess if you're worried about a player buying into the strat, stockton is the best choice. Significant talent downgrade though. And I'd be concerned if he's actually capable of functioning as a monopolizing helio. Didn't stockton rely disproprotinately on transition to create/score?

mdonnelly1989 wrote:The goal is to keep teams to an average of about 50 PPG:

Starting 5: 2 HOFs, 3 All Star Caliber players.

Bench: 5 Role Players

As you can see you don't need much of an offense to win games.

This isn’t possible. The lowest scoring game a team has had this season is 81ppg

The only way is if they hold the ball to 24 every possession

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

mdonnelly1989 wrote:The goal is to keep teams to an average of about 50 PPG:

Starting 5: 2 HOFs, 3 All Star Caliber players.

Bench: 5 Role Players

As you can see you don't need much of an offense to win games.

This isn’t possible. The lowest scoring game a team has had this season is 81ppg

The only way is if they hold the ball to 24 every possession

I was waiting someone to catch this. And although I hear you. I'm willing to bet 60-70 is doable. Given that no team has ever from top to bottom had an absolute shut down player. Todays ERA might be a little harder.

mdonnelly1989 wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

mdonnelly1989 wrote:The goal is to keep teams to an average of about 50 PPG:

Starting 5: 2 HOFs, 3 All Star Caliber players.

Bench: 5 Role Players

As you can see you don't need much of an offense to win games.

This isn’t possible. The lowest scoring game a team has had this season is 81ppg

The only way is if they hold the ball to 24 every possession

I was waiting someone to catch this. And although I hear you. I'm willing to bet 60-70 is doable. Given that no team has ever from top to bottom had an absolute shut down player. Todays ERA might be a little harder.

Pace is a pretty big issue here though, and at the end of the day even the worst teams in the nba have an off rtg of 110 right now.

If they hold the ball to 24 and don’t score maybe but if they’re trying to win it’s just not realistic. At a pace of 95, which is the lowest in the league rn, you’d need a def rtg of 73 per game. The lowest right now is 109.8, so it’s the equivalent of a 150rtg offense or something

Not to mention that it’s harder to stop someone than score on someone in general

mdonnelly1989 wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

mdonnelly1989 wrote:The goal is to keep teams to an average of about 50 PPG:

Starting 5: 2 HOFs, 3 All Star Caliber players.

Bench: 5 Role Players

As you can see you don't need much of an offense to win games.

This isn’t possible. The lowest scoring game a team has had this season is 81ppg

The only way is if they hold the ball to 24 every possession

I was waiting someone to catch this. And although I hear you. I'm willing to bet 60-70 is doable. Given that no team has ever from top to bottom had an absolute shut down player. Todays ERA might be a little harder.

I think the assumption was people going ... "as close as possible, 50 is the goal not the requirement" or "hold opponent points to a minimum" ... rather than coming back and saying well the super slow '96 Cavaliers only held teams to 88.5ppg (Ditto Fratello's '06 Grizz, through D and slow pace) , then 85.6 the next year with better D, the '99 lockout Hawks with fairly elite D and slow pace only held teams to 83.4 ppg... I assume people know circa 100ppg is pretty normal and 50 would be a pretty wild outlier even at a single game level, and far far more so as a season average. There's not anything wrong with saying it but it's not exactly new information to anyone that no team has been anywhere remotely close to this in the shot clock era.

Owly wrote:

mdonnelly1989 wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
This isn’t possible. The lowest scoring game a team has had this season is 81ppg

The only way is if they hold the ball to 24 every possession

I was waiting someone to catch this. And although I hear you. I'm willing to bet 60-70 is doable. Given that no team has ever from top to bottom had an absolute shut down player. Todays ERA might be a little harder.

I think the assumption was people going ... "as close as possible, 50 is the goal not the requirement" or "hold opponent points to a minimum" ... rather than coming back and saying well the super slow '96 Cavaliers only held teams to 88.5ppg (Ditto Fratello's '06 Grizz, through D and slow pace) , then 85.6 the next year with better D, the '99 lockout Hawks with fairly elite D and slow pace only held teams to 83.4 ppg... I assume people know circa 100ppg is pretty normal and 50 would be a pretty wild outlier even at a single game level, and far far more so as a season average. There's not anything wrong with saying it but it's not exactly new information to anyone that no team has been anywhere remotely close to this in the shot clock era.

No stop I’m the only person that caught this because I’m built different

Michael Jordan
Charles Oakley
James Johnson
Steven Adams
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Ron Artest (choose to start my 3rd all-star from the bench)
Nic Batum
Serge Ibaka
Markieff Morris (trying to instigate/provoke)
Milos Teodosic (same as above, very punchable face)

Main objective is to gravely injure at least one player per posession. MJ is just there for preferential treatment with the refs.