RealGM

Which duo would you rather build around in today's league?

With all due respect to Curry and Kareem and how tremendous that pairing would be, and while this is quite close on offense, this isn't close on defense.

LeBron and KG here, 100%.

PistolPeteJR wrote:With all due respect to Curry and Kareem and how tremendous that pairing would be, and while this is quite close on offense, this isn't close on defense.

LeBron and KG here, 100%.

I don't think it's particulary close on offense.

kg and lebron have alot of overlap I feel. Curry/Kareem might win on fit honestly

70sFan wrote:

PistolPeteJR wrote:With all due respect to Curry and Kareem and how tremendous that pairing would be, and while this is quite close on offense, this isn't close on defense.

LeBron and KG here, 100%.

I don't think it's particulary close on offense.

I think LeBron's advantage on offense vs Curry (eg. in the post, with LeBron's strong and quick first step which then gives him an open lane or a lob to KG, etc) is very clear. I don't think Curry has a crazy advantage on LeBron on offense, and Kareem will still do Kareem things.

PistolPeteJR wrote:

70sFan wrote:

PistolPeteJR wrote:With all due respect to Curry and Kareem and how tremendous that pairing would be, and while this is quite close on offense, this isn't close on defense.

LeBron and KG here, 100%.

I don't think it's particulary close on offense.

I think LeBron's advantage on offense vs Curry (eg. in the post, with LeBron's strong and quick first step which then gives him an open lane or a lob to KG, etc) is very clear. I don't think Curry has a crazy advantage on LeBron on offense, and Kareem will still do Kareem things.

I'm not saying Curry is a better offensive player than LeBron, but KG is clearly the weakest one in this comparison and I don't love fit for this pairing either. Meanwhile, Kareem and Curry are absolutely two of the greatest offensive players ever who could fit really well together.

OhayoKD wrote:kg and lebron have alot of overlap I feel. Curry/Kareem might win on fit honestly

Possibly, thr main argument for the second duo is defensive advantage which is undeniable.

70sFan wrote:

PistolPeteJR wrote:

70sFan wrote:I don't think it's particulary close on offense.

I think LeBron's advantage on offense vs Curry (eg. in the post, with LeBron's strong and quick first step which then gives him an open lane or a lob to KG, etc) is very clear. I don't think Curry has a crazy advantage on LeBron on offense, and Kareem will still do Kareem things.

I'm not saying Curry is a better offensive player than LeBron, but KG is clearly the weakest one in this comparison and I don't love fit for this pairing either. Meanwhile, Kareem and Curry are absolutely two of the greatest offensive players ever who could fit really well together.

I just feel like the defensive pairing of LeBron + KG > the offensive pairing between Curry and Kareem.
On offense, I agree that Curry + Kareem > LeBron + KG, but I think the gap there is smaller.

OhayoKD wrote:kg and lebron have alot of overlap I feel. Curry/Kareem might win on fit honestly

I see Garnett being a quicker touch scorer in PnR , PnP , other sets to get him to his spots in the mid-range in a lot of team building exercises like this (on top of his passing being in a better position to succeed). James and Bosh in a similar 2-man game style succeeded to a tune of a 116.4 ORTG and 11.8 Net Rating in non Wade minutes from 2012-14 back in Miami. Imagine a pairing like this with a big-man who could play somewhat similar on offense but adding more dimensions, while being arguably the greatest defender of the 21st century. This is along with James, who we all know was a stellar defender in his heyday.

PistolPeteJR wrote:

70sFan wrote:

PistolPeteJR wrote:
I think LeBron's advantage on offense vs Curry (eg. in the post, with LeBron's strong and quick first step which then gives him an open lane or a lob to KG, etc) is very clear. I don't think Curry has a crazy advantage on LeBron on offense, and Kareem will still do Kareem things.

I'm not saying Curry is a better offensive player than LeBron, but KG is clearly the weakest one in this comparison and I don't love fit for this pairing either. Meanwhile, Kareem and Curry are absolutely two of the greatest offensive players ever who could fit really well together.

I just feel like the defensive pairing of LeBron + KG > the offensive pairing between Curry and Kareem.
On offense, I agree that Curry + Kareem > LeBron + KG, but I think the gap there is smaller.

That's fair statement, I can see that.

I don't see a big difference in offense--LeBron is by far the best scorer and playmaker of the group. There are diminishing returns for most offenses and a LeBron-led offense is the GOAT level post-season offense we have.

Defensively, massive gap.

Colbinii wrote:I don't see a big difference in offense--LeBron is by far the best scorer and playmaker of the group. There are diminishing returns for most offenses and a LeBron-led offense is the GOAT level post-season offense we have.

Defensively, massive gap.

LeBron certainly isn't "by far" better scorer than Kareem...

rk2023 wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:kg and lebron have alot of overlap I feel. Curry/Kareem might win on fit honestly

I see Garnett being a quicker touch scorer in PnR , PnP , other sets to get him to his spots in the mid-range in a lot of team building exercises like this (on top of his passing being in a better position to succeed). James and Bosh in a similar 2-man game style succeeded to a tune of a 116.4 ORTG and 11.8 Net Rating in non Wade minutes from 2012-14 back in Miami. Imagine a pairing like this with a big-man who could play somewhat similar on offense but adding more dimensions, while being arguably the greatest defender of the 21st century. This is along with James, who we all know was a stellar defender in his heyday.

Curry and Dray also had worked historically great. Now imagine upgrade Dray to KAJ.

dygaction wrote:

rk2023 wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:kg and lebron have alot of overlap I feel. Curry/Kareem might win on fit honestly

I see Garnett being a quicker touch scorer in PnR , PnP , other sets to get him to his spots in the mid-range in a lot of team building exercises like this (on top of his passing being in a better position to succeed). James and Bosh in a similar 2-man game style succeeded to a tune of a 116.4 ORTG and 11.8 Net Rating in non Wade minutes from 2012-14 back in Miami. Imagine a pairing like this with a big-man who could play somewhat similar on offense but adding more dimensions, while being arguably the greatest defender of the 21st century. This is along with James, who we all know was a stellar defender in his heyday.

Curry and Dray also had worked historically great. Now imagine upgrade Dray to KAJ.

Oh yeah for sure. No disagreement on my end regarding player-fit in that variation of players as well - where you have arguably the best HC offensive player and best HC scorer of all time paired together. Of course, Green and Kareem would be functionally different - but I like the offensive ceiling a lot there.

Either duo should steamroll the league so its sort of nitpicking imo whenever we see these kinds of threads adding two atg's who compliment each other well. I mean who is beating either duo if they are healthy and have even a decent cast around them? The defensive potential of the LeBron/KG duo does seem pretty insane though, maybe more so in today's league with KG being able to focus more on that end.

rk2023 wrote:

dygaction wrote:

rk2023 wrote:
I see Garnett being a quicker touch scorer in PnR , PnP , other sets to get him to his spots in the mid-range in a lot of team building exercises like this (on top of his passing being in a better position to succeed). James and Bosh in a similar 2-man game style succeeded to a tune of a 116.4 ORTG and 11.8 Net Rating in non Wade minutes from 2012-14 back in Miami. Imagine a pairing like this with a big-man who could play somewhat similar on offense but adding more dimensions, while being arguably the greatest defender of the 21st century. This is along with James, who we all know was a stellar defender in his heyday.

Curry and Dray also had worked historically great. Now imagine upgrade Dray to KAJ.

Oh yeah for sure. No disagreement on my end regarding player-fit in that variation of players as well - where you have arguably the best HC offensive player and best HC scorer of all time paired together. Of course, Green and Kareem would be functionally different - but I like the offensive ceiling a lot there.

Eh? Curry/Dray were potentially in trouble vs Lebron effectively on his lonesome without iggy. They then lost to Lebron/6 games of Kevin Love.

Love-KG has got to be a bigger upgrade than dray-kareem on raw talent.

Still, like I've said, kg/lebron have overlap which means you're covering less bases. In offense in particular is pretty close KG to Lebron-lite. Compare that to Kareem and Curry whose strengths basically come to fruition in opposite ends of the floor and whose weaknesses are largely addressed by the other's strengths. And defensively curry doesn't have much impact anyway(though he's decent on smalls, has good-off ball positoining, and is very good at funnelling bigger players into larger teammates making him a pretty optimal fit next to Kareem there).

+10 may sound impressive vs real-nba teams in a specific year, but I'm not really sure how that applies to what would be a massively upgraded version of one of the greatest teams ever.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:Either duo should steamroll the league so its sort of nitpicking imo whenever we see these kinds of threads adding two atg's who compliment each other well. I mean who is beating either duo if they are healthy and have even a decent cast around them? The defensive potential of the LeBron/KG duo does seem pretty insane though, maybe more so in today's league with KG being able to focus more on that end.

Only one duo is steamrolling the league if the other duo is also in the league with them. Though I suppose that means we should consider matchup more? KG seems optimal if one was to follow Russell's advice regarding the skyhook(though maybe later adjustments hurt that) and I imagine Kareem's biggest defensive weakness would be having to deal with a stretchy pf/center. Lebron also seemed to be the pefect defensive counter for Curry in 15/16 though maybe upgrading from small-ball to big-ball hurts that.

OhayoKD wrote:Only one duo is steamrolling the league if the other duo is also in the league with them. Though I suppose that means we should consider matchup more? KG seems optimal if one was to follow Russell's advice regarding the skyhook(though maybe later adjustments hurt that) and I imagine Kareem's biggest defensive weakness would be having to deal with a stretchy pf/center. Lebron also seemed to be the pefect defensive counter for Curry in 15/16 though maybe upgrading from small-ball to big-ball hurts that.

I didn't take the op to mean that both duos are in the league at the same time.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:Only one duo is steamrolling the league if the other duo is also in the league with them. Though I suppose that means we should consider matchup more? KG seems optimal if one was to follow Russell's advice regarding the skyhook(though maybe later adjustments hurt that) and I imagine Kareem's biggest defensive weakness would be having to deal with a stretchy pf/center. Lebron also seemed to be the pefect defensive counter for Curry in 15/16 though maybe upgrading from small-ball to big-ball hurts that.

I didn't take the op to mean that both duos are in the league at the same time.

Well, I imagine that scenario would be more interesting for you so...maybe you should?

OhayoKD wrote:

Cavsfansince84 wrote:Either duo should steamroll the league so its sort of nitpicking imo whenever we see these kinds of threads adding two atg's who compliment each other well. I mean who is beating either duo if they are healthy and have even a decent cast around them? The defensive potential of the LeBron/KG duo does seem pretty insane though, maybe more so in today's league with KG being able to focus more on that end.

Only one duo is steamrolling the league if the other duo is also in the league with them. Though I suppose that means we should consider matchup more? KG seems optimal if one was to follow Russell's advice regarding the skyhook(though maybe later adjustments hurt that) and I imagine Kareem's biggest defensive weakness would be having to deal with a stretchy pf/center. Lebron also seemed to be the pefect defensive counter for Curry in 15/16 though maybe upgrading from small-ball to big-ball hurts that.

On offense, Curry and Kareem both demand double team all the time so essentially two players on their team would get wide open shots; LeBron is LeBron, but teams can afford to have single coverage on KG and feel happy to give him the long 2s. I don't think defense gap can offset the offense gap.