RealGM

Here were how the Royals did from 1958 to 1970:

1959: 22 wins, -7.89 SRS, No Playoffs
1960: 21 wins, -5.92 SRS, No Playoffs
** Oscar is drafted **
1961: 34 wins, -3.04 SRS, No Playoffs
1962: 44 wins, +1.28 SRS, Lost Semis
1963: 43 wins, +1.24 SRS, Lost Conf Finals
1964: 56 wins, +4.43 SRS, Lost Conf Finals
1965: 49 wins, +2.04 SRS, Lost Semis
1966: 46 wins, +1.03 SRS, Lost Semis
1967: 39 wins, -0.23 SRS, Lost Semis
1968: 39 wins, -0.64 SRS, No Playoffs
1969: 41 wins, -0.83 SRS, No Playoffs
1970: 36 wins, -2.55 SRS, No Playoffs

Well, if we’re just going by team success (who would do that, right?) it doesn’t look particularly impressive. Sure, they were a 20-win bottom-feeder, and he lifted them up to respectability for several years. But I can’t help but notice not a single Finals appearance, and that’s with 8 and 9 team leagues. There’s a pretty obvious explanation: Oscar wasn’t a winner. Just didn’t have that killer instinct. Didn’t have that Serpent Certainty (err, Mamba Mentality). Didn’t have that swagger. I’m sure he was good and all, but there’s more to the game than counting stats. It’s called counting wins, and by that stat he clearly was good but not thaaaaaat good.

And yet there are weird signs to the contrary.

In Ben Taylor’s WOWYR (of which there are many formulations) Oscar Robertson shows up in the Top Ten of players . . . ever. Those numbers are never perfect, but they suggest an alarming dependence on Oscar. Here are three different instances where he missed times and their effects (courtesy of BackPicks):

1961: Missed 9 games, went from 36 win pace to 9 win pace (-27)
1968: Missed 10 games, went from 46 win pace to 17 win pace (-29)
1970: Missed 12 games, went from 42 win pace to 18 win pace (-24)

OhayoKD wrote:Going to say Jordan. I'm sure there's an era-relative case to be made(worst offense turns to best offense basically instantly!) but Wilt/Russell are enough

No-more-rings wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:Going to say Jordan. I'm sure there's an era-relative case to be made(worst offense turns to best offense basically instantly!) but Wilt/Russell are enough

How is there an “era relative” case for Oscar? Jordan was far and away the best player in that season, and no one was even close. I’m not sure if Oscar even has a top 2 argument.

To be clear, Oscar could be better, but I wouldn’t use era relatively as to why.

dygaction wrote:This is pretty far stretched comparison,

but even you put Westbrook and MJ together, Russ will get some love on this board.

Yes, he scored less but just like Jokic this season, less scoring does not mean regression in ability.

Dutchball97 wrote:Pleasantly surprised to see some positive talk about Jordan after recent weeks. To be honest I think this comparison is pretty close. Both had very strong regular seasons alongside good but not optimal play-off runs. Oscar not having his most efficient outing against the Celtics at their absolute defensive peak (aka the best defensive team to ever exist) is easier to overlook than Jordan having a similar efficiency drop against the Sonics in the finals. Although it has to be said the Sonics were a very strong defensive team in their own right (2nd in 96, right after the Bulls themselves) and were well equipped to handle Jordan considering two of their standout defenders in McMillan and Payton were large guards.

Overall I do think Jordan has a pretty significant edge on defense here, although I could see arguments for Oscar being better or at least comparable on offense. If Oscar had a deeper run in 64or if the Bulls hadn't been as succeaful in 96 it'd probably become easier to argue for Oscar but as it stands I do prefer 96 MJ here.