KL vs LB

[durantbird]

Kyle Lowry
Kennard, Luke
Kawhi Leonard
Kenon, Larry
Kevin Love
Sixth man: Kevon Looney

vs

Lonzo Ball
Leandro Barbosa
Larry Bird
Love, Bob
Lanier, Bob
Sixth man: Lopez, Brook

Which team wins?

[Dutchball97]

Lowry over Ball is the biggest advantage the KL team has but I don't think it's enough to overcome the major advantage the LB team has in terms of bigs. Lanier/Love/Lopez is pretty clearly superior to Kenon/Love/Looney.

[OhayoKD]

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

[Dutchball97]

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

What's your reason for Lowry over Lanier?

(btw that sig really necessary?)

[70sFan]

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

Lowry better than Lanier? How?

[OhayoKD]

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

What's your reason for Lowry over Lanier?

3-pointers go brrrr

(btw that sig really necessary?)

Yes

[OhayoKD]

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

Lowry better than Lanier? How?

It's a translation thing. I generally assume it's harder to reign in a skill-set under stricter rules, then to outpace other player's development when the reigns are loosened. And also hard to overlook three-point shooting.

[Dutchball97]

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

What's your reason for Lowry over Lanier?

3-pointers go brrrr

(btw that sig really necessary?)

Yes

Ah I guess I was under the wrong impression you were also willing to move on and interact normally. My bad.

[OhayoKD]

What's your reason for Lowry over Lanier?

3-pointers go brrrr

(btw that sig really necessary?)

Yes

Ah I guess I was under the wrong impression you were also willing to move on and interact normally. My bad.

Is derailing a third thread on the trot on the basis of a sig really "interacting normally"?

If you're pressed about it, just sig something I've said. False equivalencies are a strength of yours

[Dutchball97]

3-pointers go brrrr

Yes

Ah I guess I was under the wrong impression you were also willing to move on and interact normally. My bad.

Is derailing a third thread on the trot on the basis of a sig really "interacting normally"?

If you're pressed about it, just sig something I've said. False equivalencies are a strength of yours

You can call it derailing but I asked you why you had Lowry over Lanier here, the exact same question 70sfan was also asking a few mintues later. I figured I could just as well ask why you felt the need to include an instagatory signature after multiple threads have now been locked with multiple posters (including both of us) warned.

I'm not interested in engaging in any more meaningless fights so I'm not going to put anything in my signature myself nor continue this any further in this thread or any other thread. Have a nice day.

[Owly]

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

What's your reason for Lowry over Lanier?

3-pointers go brrrr

(btw that sig really necessary?)

Yes

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

Lowry better than Lanier? How?

It's a translation thing. I generally assume it's harder to reign in a skill-set under stricter rules, then to outpace other player's development when the reigns are loosened. And also hard to overlook three-point shooting.

I don't care that much about how people want to do time machine stuff. And I'm bullish on Lanier versus the norm so ... bear that in mind.

Still, Lanier shot .767 from the free throw line for his career (.779 from 74-82). For a historic center that wasn't an absolute outsider shooter (i.e. central to offensive game, offense perhaps defined by it, maybe showed 3pt range: Sikma [esp. later, I know there's Sikma move and passing], Laimbeer) that's pretty good territory. Heck it's solid for a player in general, never mind position specific (centers or bigs or non-guards). I'm not going to be rigid and say what would happen I've argued against people making absolute statements about players with worse percentages and the line more established becoming 3pt shooters. But my impression (off numbers and bits of video and what I've read) is given the opportunity and impetus, Lanier, being a good shooter, is a good bet to extend out to the 3 point line (at least the corners, maybe beyond).

[OhayoKD]

What's your reason for Lowry over Lanier?

3-pointers go brrrr

(btw that sig really necessary?)

Yes

Lowry better than Lanier? How?

It's a translation thing. I generally assume it's harder to reign in a skill-set under stricter rules, then to outpace other player's development when the reigns are loosened. And also hard to overlook three-point shooting.

I don't care that much about how people want to do time machine stuff. And I'm bullish on Lanier versus the norm so ... bear that in mind.

Still, Lanier shot .767 from the free throw line for his career (.779 from 74-82). For a historic center that wasn't an absolute outsider shooter (i.e. central to offensive game, offense perhaps defined by it, maybe showed 3pt range: Sikma [esp. later, I know there's Sikma move and passing], Laimbeer) that's pretty good territory. Heck it's solid for a player in general, never mind position specific (centers or bigs or non-guards). I'm not going to be rigid and say what would happen I've argued against people making absolute statements about players with worse percentages and the line more established becoming 3pt shooters. But my impression (off numbers and bits of video and what I've read) is given the opportunity and impetus, Lanier, being a good shooter, is a good bet to extend out to the 3 point line (at least the corners, maybe beyond).

Would you be confident giving me a general range in terms of volume/effiency? Or an upper-limit?

[70sFan]

going to pick the team with kawhi who i expect to perform the best in most settings. Also think you could just start looney who was actually a very good defender at his peak. Also would take lowry over anyone not named bird on team 2.

Lowry better than Lanier? How?

It's a translation thing. I generally assume it's harder to reign in a skill-set under stricter rules, then to outpace other player's development when the reigns are loosened. And also hard to overlook three-point shooting.

I have very little doubts about Lanier offense translating to different eras. He was one of the most well rounded centers ever on offens.e

[Owly]

3-pointers go brrrr

Yes

It's a translation thing. I generally assume it's harder to reign in a skill-set under stricter rules, then to outpace other player's development when the reigns are loosened. And also hard to overlook three-point shooting.

I don't care that much about how people want to do time machine stuff. And I'm bullish on Lanier versus the norm so ... bear that in mind.

Still, Lanier shot .767 from the free throw line for his career (.779 from 74-82). For a historic center that wasn't an absolute outsider shooter (i.e. central to offensive game, offense perhaps defined by it, maybe showed 3pt range: Sikma [esp. later, I know there's Sikma move and passing], Laimbeer) that's pretty good territory. Heck it's solid for a player in general, never mind position specific (centers or bigs or non-guards). I'm not going to be rigid and say what would happen I've argued against people making absolute statements about players with worse percentages and the line more established becoming 3pt shooters. But my impression (off numbers and bits of video and what I've read) is given the opportunity and impetus, Lanier, being a good shooter, is a good bet to extend out to the 3 point line (at least the corners, maybe beyond).

Would you be confident giving me a general range in terms of volume/effiency? Or an upper-limit?

Not really. Per above time machine is out of my ballpark. And team (and league) context will be a factor.

But to tease the qualitative stuff from the time the Hollander books after 74-78 (missing one) say
"Bob Lanier is probably the best outside shooting center in the NBA. He has a remarkably soft touch for a man his size. He can hit from 15 feet away." [goes on to describe inside game, guess is 15 feet isn't stated as a limit to his range, if so I'd see that as an undersell]
"possibly the best outside shooting center in the league"
"the most versatile scoring threat among all big men ... Then he can go outside and tease you with that soft jumper."
"quite possibly the most versatile scorer who has ever played the pivot ... His arsenal includes deft inside moves and long, long jumpers"
"Want shots from outside, inside, hooks, dunks, drives, whatever? He's the guy."
"A lot depends on Bob Lanier ... he has been hampered [by injuries] in recent seasons and the offense falls a few notches when he is not there supplying 25 points a game. And Lanier does more than put in rebounds, dunks and short hooks. He is a good shooter, who frustrates opponents from 15 feet away. It makes it hard to double up on him."
"Can shoot from outside and is a bull in close."
Hollander was aggregating multiple sources so not necessarily him absolutely saying he's the best big man shooter. The "what people thought [at the time]" is a step away from actual on court effectiveness, your mileage may vary.

As I said he's not in with those shooter, shooters circa 84-85% from the line. But otoh going down the line of top centers (and especially playing mainly pre-three) I don't think I'd see many with that high a hard figure on ft% nor many with an outside shooting rep (esp. including self-generation) never mind both. So he'd be high up on my, "could adjust and benefit from the three, given time and incentive" rankings if I did them.

[post edited to insert "15" for "ft", add "g" to first "long"]

[Kingdibs19]

Bird >>> Kawhi so LB for me

[ardee]

Definitely the LB team. That frontline advantage is just too much to overcome.

[dygaction]

Kyle Lowry
Kennard, Luke
Kawhi Leonard
Kenon, Larry
Kevin Love
Sixth man: Kevon Looney

vs

Lonzo Ball
Leandro Barbosa
Larry Bird
Love, Bob
Lanier, Bob
Sixth man: Lopez, Brook

Which team wins?

The MJ team:
PG: Magic Johnson
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: Marques Johnson
PF: Mashburn, Jamal
C: Magloire, Jamaal

Sixman: Morant, Ja/Mark Jackson/Mike James/Malone, Jeff/McGee JaVale
prob should slide Magic to PF and fit Ja in as the starting PG