Taj FTW wrote:I've been having a discussion with residents NBA expert MavsDirk about supporting casts. He's arguing that MJ's supporting cast that season is similar to what LeBron was working with from 2006-2009. I simply don't agree. His argument is below.
MavsDirk41 wrote:I think we have been over this before but here we go again: Pippen missed half the season with an injury. Without Pippen the only other Bulls players in double figures besides Jordan was Kukoc (13ppg) and Longley (11ppg). Rodman was outstanding on the boards but gave them no offense. Jordan carried that team in the regular season with Pippen out. In the finals Jordan averaged 34ppg while Pippen avg 16ppg and Kukoc 15ppg. This was Pippens worst regular season and finals with the Bulls imo. In his 4 finals victorys (James that is) name a second fiddle that James had who was worse than 98 Pippen. You also mentioned Longley and Kerr as part of a solid supporting cast. Ok. Are they worse than Mo Williams, Mario Chalmers, Tristian Thompson, or the Birdman? Im not taking away from what James did in 07 but its been done before by other alltime greats. And yes, consider ive been watching the nba since 87 im pretty sure i watched 90s nba. You get on here and insult people who disagree with your opinion on lebron james. Reality is not everbody views him or his career the same as you.
I personally think MJ had a good supporting cast. Pippen was still effective, despite the injuries. Kukoc was in his prime. Rodman was putting up 15 RPG. Longley, Kerr, Harper are damn good complimentary pieces IMO. The team was a top defensive team that year as well.
It will of course depend on the details of what one mean ... is the bar in terms of the thread title versus other title teams, versus the average team etc. Are we discussing their merits in general or as a cast for Jordan ... etc.
Whilst it is visibly weaker (particularly at the top end) than the preceding teams with Pippen hurt and missing time, Rodman diminished, Kukoc shooting worse than the prior years it seems nevertheless to be a solid one.
On the data side the team doesn't go to hell with Jordan on the bench despite the aforementioned top-end dropoff (though it arguably does in the playoffs, in a smaller sample).
In terms of production the top 10-11 (by minutes) are probably all at least competent. Caffey is limited (not a passer) and Brown weak on production but he was a defensive specialist. Buechler is weak in terms of on off, but that years RAPM suggests he was above average suggesting perhaps that the poor on-off may have come from playing in scrub units. Reputationally he had the attributes and numerically the skills you want from that spot player role (defense, hustle, competitive, accepts minutes will fluctuate, defends multiple positions, makes shots, plays within the system, doesn't take much off the table). There's also continuity there in terms of roster and coaching.
I don't know the context of your discussion ... there's an aggregation of Cavs 1, Heat and Cavs 2 casts ... In terms of their comment regarding "a second fiddle that James had who was worse than 98 Pippen" - and teams go much further than 2 players so this is only a small part of the picture - if the focus is on the years of "finals victorys" and thus playoffs I'd rather have '98 playoff Pippen than '13 playoff Wade especially in the roles they played next to a high primacy wing scorer (Wade's box and impact indicators seem at first glance not insiginifcantly worse and he's a worse defender. I'd
consider Irving, despite the excellent playoff production because he was always a poor defender and (perhaps because of this) his impact has tended to lag behind his production. Like Pippen he's at circa 1650 minutes for the regular season. To reiterate though there's far more to the overall question than the "second star".
