RealGM

Top 3?

Top 3 along with Jokic and Giannis.

This is a hot-take probably but I think I would have the most confidence in his peak over anyone in the current league. If Jokic-s defense isn't as bad as I am thinking/Giannis shows something new in his offensive arsenal that wasn't there in past seasons/ Luka's conditioning improves before the PS, I may sing a different tune.

Saying anything lower than top 3 is total nonsense. There would be no realistic way to guard him today with all the spacing, Wade couldn’t be trapped effectively with any regularity, and if he got a first step he’s either finishing at the basket or drawing a foul. Wade wasn’t the jump shooter someone like KD or Lillard is, but go back and watch him he could certainly light teams up from mid range, and make all sorts of bank shots, floaters etc. You can argue for Giannis, because he’s a defensive force that Wade can’t match at 6’4, and you can argue for Jokic since he’s making a solid case for the goat offensive season but no one else has any realistic case.

No-more-rings wrote:Saying anything lower than top 3 is total nonsense. There would be no realistic way to guard him today with all the spacing, Wade couldn’t be trapped effectively with any regularity, and if he got a first step he’s either finishing at the basket or drawing a foul. Wade wasn’t the jump shooter someone like KD or Lillard is, but go back and watch him he could certainly light teams up from mid range, and make all sorts of bank shots, floaters etc. You can argue for Giannis, because he’s a defensive force that Wade can’t match at 6’4, and you can argue for Jokic since he’s making a solid case for the goat offensive season but no one else has any realistic case.

Feel Embiid has to have a case as well right? Unless ur worried about his health

I’d put Wade at #2 behind Giannis personally I think, maybe higher

1 to 5 for level (Jokic/Embiid/Giannis/Curry). 1 to 3 depending on how others finish their seasons (minus Curry, and I figure the other 3 can't all finish strong enough to be above him). Likely 1 or 2.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Saying anything lower than top 3 is total nonsense. There would be no realistic way to guard him today with all the spacing, Wade couldn’t be trapped effectively with any regularity, and if he got a first step he’s either finishing at the basket or drawing a foul. Wade wasn’t the jump shooter someone like KD or Lillard is, but go back and watch him he could certainly light teams up from mid range, and make all sorts of bank shots, floaters etc. You can argue for Giannis, because he’s a defensive force that Wade can’t match at 6’4, and you can argue for Jokic since he’s making a solid case for the goat offensive season but no one else has any realistic case.

Feel Embiid has to have a case as well right? Unless ur worried about his health

I’d put Wade at #2 behind Giannis personally I think, maybe higher

Not only a case but a strong one

Best player in the world

I'd take Jokic over him. That's it.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Saying anything lower than top 3 is total nonsense. There would be no realistic way to guard him today with all the spacing, Wade couldn’t be trapped effectively with any regularity, and if he got a first step he’s either finishing at the basket or drawing a foul. Wade wasn’t the jump shooter someone like KD or Lillard is, but go back and watch him he could certainly light teams up from mid range, and make all sorts of bank shots, floaters etc. You can argue for Giannis, because he’s a defensive force that Wade can’t match at 6’4, and you can argue for Jokic since he’s making a solid case for the goat offensive season but no one else has any realistic case.

Feel Embiid has to have a case as well right? Unless ur worried about his health

I’d put Wade at #2 behind Giannis personally I think, maybe higher

I mean based on what? What has Embiid done in the playoffs that can make you go “yeah i’d take him over Wade to win a championship”.

And I don’t know how you can’t be concerned about health.

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:Saying anything lower than top 3 is total nonsense. There would be no realistic way to guard him today with all the spacing, Wade couldn’t be trapped effectively with any regularity, and if he got a first step he’s either finishing at the basket or drawing a foul. Wade wasn’t the jump shooter someone like KD or Lillard is, but go back and watch him he could certainly light teams up from mid range, and make all sorts of bank shots, floaters etc. You can argue for Giannis, because he’s a defensive force that Wade can’t match at 6’4, and you can argue for Jokic since he’s making a solid case for the goat offensive season but no one else has any realistic case.

Feel Embiid has to have a case as well right? Unless ur worried about his health

I’d put Wade at #2 behind Giannis personally I think, maybe higher

Not only a case but a strong one

No he doesn’t. A “strong case” is absolutely silly.

No-more-rings wrote:

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Feel Embiid has to have a case as well right? Unless ur worried about his health

I’d put Wade at #2 behind Giannis personally I think, maybe higher

Not only a case but a strong one

No he doesn’t. A “strong case” is absolutely silly.

“He got me,” GeorgeMarcus said of No-more-rings' reply to him. "That f***ing No-more-rings boomed me."

GeorgeMarcus added, “He’s so good,” repeating it four times.

GeorgeMarcus then said he wanted to add No-more-rings to the list of posters he works out with this summer.

Best player in the league.

No-more-rings wrote:

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Feel Embiid has to have a case as well right? Unless ur worried about his health

I’d put Wade at #2 behind Giannis personally I think, maybe higher

Not only a case but a strong one

No he doesn’t. A “strong case” is absolutely silly.

I mean, Embiid pretty easily wins in counting stat comparisons, efficiency comparisons and impact comparisons. To say he doesn't have a case is to expose your bias

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Not only a case but a strong one

No he doesn’t. A “strong case” is absolutely silly.

I mean, Embiid pretty easily wins in counting stat comparisons, efficiency comparisons and impact comparisons. To say he doesn't have a case is to expose your bias

You can’t just compare “counting stats” from now to when Wade peaked. Like I posted in that other thread, players like Lillard and Luka are posting better absolute scoring numbers than Lebron did in 2009 and 2010. Guys like Kyrie and Mitchell look like comparable or better scorers to Wade and Kobe if you just look at numbers without any context or adjustment for eras.

With that out of the way, what impact measures does Embiid win “easily” on?

No-more-rings wrote:

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:No he doesn’t. A “strong case” is absolutely silly.

I mean, Embiid pretty easily wins in counting stat comparisons, efficiency comparisons and impact comparisons. To say he doesn't have a case is to expose your bias

You can’t just compare “counting stats” from now to when Wade peaked. Like I posted in that other thread, players like Lillard and Luka are posting better absolute scoring numbers than Lebron did in 2009 and 2010. Guys like Kyrie and Mitchell look like comparable or better scorers to Wade and Kobe if you just look at numbers without any context or adjustment for eras.

With that out of the way, what impact measures does Embiid win “easily” on?

Since you're the one expressing agitation, how about you make the argument? Or, specifically, explain what has made you conclude that Wade transported today would obviously be better than a hakeem-level post-scorer(better touch vs weaker positioning(though some of that might be more sophisticated entry-pass denial) with excellent paint-protection and a solid 3-ball.

Surely it's not another variation of "more spacing mean slashline better!"

OhayoKD wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
I mean, Embiid pretty easily wins in counting stat comparisons, efficiency comparisons and impact comparisons. To say he doesn't have a case is to expose your bias

You can’t just compare “counting stats” from now to when Wade peaked. Like I posted in that other thread, players like Lillard and Luka are posting better absolute scoring numbers than Lebron did in 2009 and 2010. Guys like Kyrie and Mitchell look like comparable or better scorers to Wade and Kobe if you just look at numbers without any context or adjustment for eras.

With that out of the way, what impact measures does Embiid win “easily” on?

Since you're the one expressing agitation, how about you make the argument? Or, specifically, explain what has made you conclude that Wade transported today would obviously be better than a hakeem-level post-scorer(better touch vs weaker positioning(though some of that might be more sophisticated entry-pass denial) with excellent paint-protection and a solid 3-ball.

Surely it's not another variation of "more spacing mean slashline better!"

I’m willing to retract the “absolutely silly” comment, since that was sort of an off the cuff response that isn’t really helpful to discussion.

He would certainly be better in the postseason if nothing else, since we’ve never seen Embiid carry that kind of load and stay healthy in any significant compacity in the postseason.

I don’t fully know how to compare their regular season impact. Embiid to my knowledge has never been league leading in that regard, Wade did it one time any any other time was typically behind Lebron and comparable to the Dirks and Kobe types.

I know you’re trying to be cute with that last comment, but yeah that’s pretty much true unless you think that guys like Tatum, Lillard, Kyrie etc are outright better scorers than Wade or Kobe there’s obviously something going on besides “today’s players are smarter, faster, better shooters”. Or how a Giannis/Lopez frountcourt is going to deter Wade from the basket.

No-more-rings wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:You can’t just compare “counting stats” from now to when Wade peaked. Like I posted in that other thread, players like Lillard and Luka are posting better absolute scoring numbers than Lebron did in 2009 and 2010. Guys like Kyrie and Mitchell look like comparable or better scorers to Wade and Kobe if you just look at numbers without any context or adjustment for eras.

With that out of the way, what impact measures does Embiid win “easily” on?

Since you're the one expressing agitation, how about you make the argument? Or, specifically, explain what has made you conclude that Wade transported today would obviously be better than a hakeem-level post-scorer(better touch vs weaker positioning(though some of that might be more sophisticated entry-pass denial) with excellent paint-protection and a solid 3-ball.

Surely it's not another variation of "more spacing mean slashline better!"

I’m willing to retract the “absolutely silly” comment, since that was sort of an off the cuff response that isn’t really helpful to discussion.

He would certainly be better in the postseason if nothing else, since we’ve never seen Embiid carry that kind of load and stay healthy in any significant compacity in the postseason.

I don’t fully know how to compare their regular season impact. Embiid to my knowledge has never been league leading in that regard, Wade did it one time any any other time was typically behind Lebron and comparable to the Dirks and Kobe types.

I know you’re trying to be cute with that last comment, but yeah that’s pretty much true unless you think that guys like Tatum, Lillard, Kyrie etc are outright better scorers than Wade or Kobe there’s obviously something going on besides “today’s players are smarter, faster, better shooters”. Or how a Giannis/Lopez frountcourt is going to deter Wade from the basket.

Is Kyrie a top 3 player? Is he even top 10? If your answer is no, then it would seem "more spacing means slashline better!" doesn't actually mean anything.

And today's players are (generally) smarter and better shooters(and passers/ball-handlers). And even over the last 20 years, the Global Talent pool has expanded massively(feel free to reference Ty's graphic). Thus, barring a specific blueprint for relative improvement(ex: Synergy god Kobe doesn't have to iso in the triangle without illegal defense), the most likely outcome for a player being teleported into a more talented league is that they standout less(aka getting worse).

That said, I don't have a strong opinion on Wade either way, which is why I haven't weighed in. You on the other hand, seem to have a very strong opinion on Wade, even though you currently aren't doing a great job articulating why.

I'll grant you health, but Embid may well be healthy this post-season. So "silly" and "nonsense" is pretty strong if "injury prone" is all you have.

And FWIW, Embid did lead the "playoffs" in "impact" while hobbled in 2019. I have no idea what you're using for the regular season(IIRC Kobe looked better in years people highlight for Wade based on that Kevin Felton rebuke), but let's say it's true, that's still just an era-relative argument and this thread is not asking for you to rank these players relative to era

No-more-rings wrote:

GeorgeMarcus wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:No he doesn’t. A “strong case” is absolutely silly.

I mean, Embiid pretty easily wins in counting stat comparisons, efficiency comparisons and impact comparisons. To say he doesn't have a case is to expose your bias

You can’t just compare “counting stats” from now to when Wade peaked. Like I posted in that other thread, players like Lillard and Luka are posting better absolute scoring numbers than Lebron did in 2009 and 2010. Guys like Kyrie and Mitchell look like comparable or better scorers to Wade and Kobe if you just look at numbers without any context or adjustment for eras.

With that out of the way, what impact measures does Embiid win “easily” on?

I agree that Embiid needs to show he can be healthy in the playoffs and everything before he gets in a serious conversation vs Wade, but I’d say personally Jokic has to show he can be less of a liability defensively in the playoffs as well.

Like at the same time if Embiid continues his current level of play into the playoffs I think he’s certainly have an argument though, I mean the guys probably gonna win MVP and I don’t think it’s like a robbery or anything

He’s probably neck and neck with Giannis for best player in the league. Peak Wade around 2006 & 2009 was an absolute 2-way entire length of the court monster. Id take him over Jokic given the defensive advantage and Embiid given that he’s a much better playmaker and initiator of offense. Hard to imagine Embiid carrying a team like the 2006 or 2009 Heat without an elite ball handler or playmaker / passer.