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Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

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Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:11 pm
by TheLand13
*Yes, I am well aware that this is a long post. No, I don't care. I actually had a lot of fun writing about this as this is something I've wanted to make a discussion about for a long time now. You aren't required to read all of it, hence why I made bolded sections to make it easier for people to read.*

I've made this claim but I've never truly done a deep dive with it, and I've been wanting to for a long time now because truthfully, this is one of my all time favorite teams just from a pure roster construction standpoint. I've never seen a team be so wonderfully put together from top to bottom and just seem so perfect in terms of fit. It's one of the most well constructed teams I've ever seen in a very long time. In some ways, it blows my mind that the very franchise that made a team like this could make the one like... well...

Image

Sometimes I like to pretend that team doesn't exist.

Let it be known that I am a massive LeBron James fan (but not a stan as people who lack compelling retorts will say). I am also someone who was never really a fan of LeBron's approach to increasing his chances of winning additional titles. I mean, fair enough on the Cleveland part because it didn't really matter what he did with that, the truth of the matter is that he was lucky he was even able to escape that one with a championship to begin with (and for that I am eternally thankful). And it's weird because I'm going to end up using one of those teams as an example of how you should properly build a team around LeBron.

And yes, let it be known that the morale of this thread is that, at least in my opinion anyways, building a super team isn't always the best way to go. And in fact, it can backfire, which I'll do my best to explain... at some point. That's not really the point I want to focus on, but it's worth explaining.

I have always felt that the 2020 Lakers were the best team LeBron ever played on. And this goes for all aspects of the game. It was the team that was the best fit for him. It was the team that set him up the best for success in terms of a potential postseason run. It was the team that I think utilized him the best. And yes, I do think their title run is legitimate, and it's laughable to try to argue otherwise. But since that's not a point that has any merit, I'm not going to waste my time on it. But what I am going to spend time discussing is why I do think it's the best team he's ever had. And to discuss this, we first need to do a dive into the best teams he's had in the four stages of his career: His first run with Cleveland, his run with Miami, his second stint with Cleveland, and... this current one he's in now. I want to give a detailed explanation on what made these teams so effective, why I felt they were his best teams, and go from there.

So let's get into it.

Oh and just an FYI, a LOT of time will be spent discussing the three stages of his career before we get to the 2020 Lakers. If you aren't interested in reading those parts, just skip to the bolded part where we get to that team. I'll put spoiler tags to make this easier.

His First Stint with Cleveland

Spoiler:
LeBron's first stint with Cleveland lasted seven seasons. Unlike his other three stages of his career, this one did not include a championship team, although it did feature a finals appearance. Oddly enough though, it was the team that got bounced in the second round that I feel was his best team. And that of course was the 2010 version.

I've made a rant about why anyone who thinks the 2009 version is superior to this one doesn't know what they're talking about or didn't watch at the time in another thread, so I'm not going to spend much time discussing this. But there is one thing I want to point out before we move on. The Cavaliers teams during LeBron's first stint were the ones that relied the most on LeBron and his talents. These were the best examples of what LeBron was capable of when it came to actually bringing out the best in his teammates, and his ability to just straight up carry teams. And I think that the 2010 Cavaliers really exemplified that. Guys like Mo, Varejao, Hickson, all thrived while playing alongside LeBron, and were able to continue growing and developing as players thanks to his leadership and guidance. But in this case, part of the reason for that is that they found their niche while playing with him. Hickson's athleticism and physicality was a perfect fit alongside the king and it gave him an actual place in the rotation, despite not being a particularly talented player. LeBron's ability to find open teammates helped Varejao grow and develop as an offensive player, and in 2010, he was arguably at his best as a defender. Mo didn't have to run the offense anymore and was able to focus more on being a spot up shooting guard, which in the end was what was best for him as a player. The reason why I'm mentioning all of this is to make a point that in this case, the Cavaliers were incredibly reliant on him to the point where their effectiveness as players, or as a team as a whole, was severely reduced without him being included. Without him, there was no system in place (as evidenced by how awful they were the following season). And thus, even though this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, this doesn't really deserve consideration despite it being the best team he had during that first stint. There just wasn't anything special or particularly impressive about his teams in the first seven years of his career, which is pretty wild considering how one made the finals and two had 60 win seasons. When we go into Miami... well, that's when things get interesting, and I'll be going into a lot more depth with those.


Taking his talents to South Beach

Spoiler:
So this is where things start to get very interesting. There's one team that is a clear standout in this case but there's a couple things that I want to touch on that apply to all four is his seasons here. Miami is where LeBron arguably achieved his greatest level of success. He ended up winning two of his four rings with this franchise and made four straight finals appearances (although most, myself included, will argue that his Cleveland ring will always be his crowning achievement, more on that later). And so with that, you'd expect these teams to be on another level. But the thing is... that's not really the case, apart from one team. We know which one I'm talking about.

Spoiler warning: The 2013 team is the best one, but like I said, there's a few things I want to talk about here that address all the teams.

Here's the thing that a lot of people, including LeBron haters (except for the ones who don't seem to understand what their point is as it's all over the place) don't acknowledge: those Miami Heat teams were actually pretty flawed. It always felt like with each season, apart from the 2013 team, there were glaring weaknesses that could be exploited, and they usually were. The 2011 team was the one and only time where Dwayne Wade was still an MVP caliber player before he started to decline, but the problem is that outside of him and LeBron, the Heat weren't anything special as a team. Their bench was non existent, and Chris Bosh, who was part of that big three, struggled to find an identity with the team and didn't really have a secured place on the team. Sure, he was their undisputed third option on offense, but outside of his scoring (which really could have been made up for by decent offensive role players), Bosh wasn't contributing much at all to their overall success. His rebounding was non existent with this team and he had major consistency issues. This put him in an unfortunate spot that he shouldn't have been in to begin with, but he made his bed and now he had to sleep in it (should have went to Cleveland my guy).

Despite this, the 2011 team turned out to still be pretty good just due to the talent of their big three alone and even managed an NBA Finals run, although it needs to be mentioned that an injury to Rondo and the Bulls having matchup issues (and LeBron locking up D-Rose) were key factors in Miami ultimately making a run to the finals in the first place. People still to this day consider the loss to Dallas to be an upset, and while I still contend that Miami would have won had LeBron played to his typical standards, by no means was Miami the superior team. Dallas had the better team across the board, sporting a much more potent starting five with a vastly superior bench and better coaching. I don't know why people continue to underrate the Mavericks team to this day, especially with all the data and video demonstrating that they were, in reality, an elite team, but whatever helps the narrative eh?

In 2012, the Miami Heat made improvements to their team, and it's for this reason that I want to pause and outline the importance of the role player on a championship team.

See, role players truly don't get the credit they deserve when it comes to how important they are to a championship contender. People seem to have this idea that you can just replace one with another that has similar value or plays a similar style but that's simply not the case. Just like with every star player, every role player offers their own unique skills and experiences that ultimately add to the overall structure of a teams core. The skills a player brought to one team might not be valuable to them, but it could be the final piece to a championship team for another. Channing Frye in Cleveland is a great example of this (more on that later).

Miami had their big three. And those group of players alone were talented enough to make Miami contenders to come out the East. But to truly take a hold onto that conference, Miami needed to fill out the holes in their roster. And those holes needed to be filled by role players who could be legitimate difference makers when they played, people who you weren't hoping would play good minutes, but rather, could add to the overall scheme that you are trying to implement.

So, we go back to the 2012 Miami Heat for a moment. In their case, two notable acquisitions were made. The first was Shane Battier. At this point in his career, Battier was an elite 3/D forward that was capable of guarding multiple positions on the floor, who had a lot of mileage and experience in the NBA. This was perfect for Miami for a variety of reasons. For one thing, it added some much needed three point shooting to the starting lineup. Another thing that I didn't highlight above and chose to hold off on until we got here about the 2011 Miami Heat is that when it came to fit, it wasn't ideal by any means for LeBron. Mario Chalmers was the only legitimate floor spreader in that starting lineup, and he had to rely on players such as Mike Miller and James Jones to help spread the floor when they came off the bench. Because of this, LeBron was forced to play a more perimeter based game relying on his ability to hit outside jumpers. This, as we all know, backfired horribly when they went up against Dallas, who knew this and had the capabilities to take full advantage of it. This, along with a couple other reasons, is why I ultimately think that Chris Bosh wasn't working out well at first, and why I actually think bringing him in caused more issues than it did solutions. But, to his credit, he actually made it work out in the end (more on that later). With Shane Battier joining the team, Miami had someone who was good enough as a player to insert into the starting lineup, and change the entire scheme of the team. This starting unit had more floor spreading, and had the capabilities to now be one of the more elite defensive teams in the league. Having Wade/LeBron/Battier in the starting lineup was a nightmare for opposing teams, as all three players were outstanding and versatile defensive players.

But probably the most important change that this resulted in was Chris Bosh being shifted to C. The guy had to go somewhere as it was clear they weren't going to bench him, but you definitely needed to have Battier in that starting lineup. At the time, I had a lot of doubts about this change, but I'm glad to say that I ended up being wrong about it in the end. Chris Bosh transitioning over to center could not have worked out any better. Not only was he able to put on the pounds and muscle needed to handle the position, he put in a lot of time and effort to focus on improving his defense, as he knew that in order for him to truly make an impact on the team, he needed to improve at that end, especially if he was playing center. And... he did. And I mean he REALLY did. Bosh became a surprisingly great rim protecting big man. His long arms and mobility made him a surprisingly great defensive center for Miami. After struggling to really find his niche with Miami in the first season, Bosh was suddenly very important to the team again in ways that none of us were expecting. Oh, and to add to all of that? The guy developed a three point shot. Excellent. This is what you call a teammate right here. The guy understood what he needed to do in order to really be a positive asset, and he put in the work, and it paid off. Granted, his three pointer didn't become consistent until 2013, but at this point, just him being able to become a great rim protecting center who was still a dangerous offensive player was more than enough to stop him from being the butt of jokes from opposing fanbases.

The second acquisition, and less notable but still important, was Norris Cole. I don't think anyone was expecting the 28th pick out of Cleveland State to be a legitimate difference maker for Miami, but that ended up being the case. His ability to provide a healthy balance of scoring off the bench and his fearlessness was actually very important for Miami. It finally gave them that scoring punch they needed off the bench. It didn't solve all of their problems, but it was a start.

And as we all know, the 2012 Miami Heat won the NBA Finals. But still, there were holes on that roster. It was an imperfect team that became NBA Champions. I know every team in history (apart from maybe the 86 Celtics and 17 Warriors because yeah no those teams are perfect) has weaknesses that can be filled out, but in this case, this was a team that still had glaring problems you could exploit.

That all changed in 2013.

The arrival of Ray Allen and Birdman, along with LeBron James being at arguably his peak as a player, cultivated in what I consider to be the second greatest team LeBron ever had. Ray Allen coming into the mix gave Miami their Bill Walton, which is what I like to call any historic team that had that big weapon off the bench who could impact the game at a high level. Bill Walton from the 86 Celtics is my favorite example of this, as he was not only fantastic for that team, but it felt like a legitimate redemption arc for him after it looked like his career was over.

I love that dude.

Anyways, we all know about the impact Ray Allen made, but Chris Anderson and what he did for Miami cannot be ignored. Just like Norris Cole helped fill out the PG rotation, Chris Anderson helped fill out the center rotation. I know I mentioned before that Chris Bosh solved the starting center problem, but they were still missing a legitimate backup for him. Chris Anderson started out as an experiment, being given a ten day contract, and he ended up being better than they were expecting. He was given another ten day contract, and pretty quickly they realized they had something going for them here. He was ultimately given a contract for the remainder of the season, and in what became another one of my favorite redemption arcs, Chris Anderson ended up becoming a key rotation player in Miami's championship campaign. His physical style of play and no **** given attitude made him ferocious downlow, and he was excellent at picking his spots to find scoring opportunities. He was great defensively, and he provided much needed rebounding as well.

And we all know about 2013 LeBron. I could go on for days about that, but that's not the point of this thread.

2013 was the peak of LeBron's time with Miami. It was without question the best version of that team. The glaring weaknesses that could be exploited were no longer exploitable. They had a well rounded starting five, featuring a top ten player in the league, a top fifteen player in the league, an elite 3/D player, and a pretty good PG who could at least defend well and shoot. This is to go along with, what many (myself included) consider to be the most dominant version of any player we have ever seen in the history of the game. Notice how I said most dominant, I'm not trying to start a "who is the GOAT" discussion. I don't think LeBron is the GOAT personally, but I do think 2013 LeBron James is the most dominant player the NBA had ever seen, and this includes any version of Jordan we ever had. And the bench was no joke either, featuring the likes of Ray Allen, Norris Cole, Chris Anderson, and Mike Miller. This was an all time team, and I consider this to be a top ten team all time.

BUT... I still don't think it's the greatest team LeBron ever played on. So does that mean that LA team is a top ten all time team? No. But please, bare with me.

With all of that said, 2013 is also unfortunately where the decline occurs, and it would eventually result in the Miami era ending. Dwayne Wade would get injured in 2013, and it would severely impact not only his effectiveness as a player, but the team as well. I'm convinced that if Wade didn't get injured, that classic 7 game series we got between them and San Antonio probably would have ended a lot sooner.

Still though, the damage was already done. And in 2014, Wade's sudden and massive drop off along with the rest of the team aging would result in them not being nearly the same. We all know what happened from there.

If you've made it this far, I appreciate it. I want to take this moment to explain why I'm going over all of this. There are certain things that ultimately led to the 2013 Miami Heat becoming as good of a team as they did that factor heavily into what happened with the 2020 Lakers becoming an elite team themselves. There are overlooked aspects of team building that I wanted to focus on heavily here as they are important when discussing what makes a team so great in the first place. I've always felt that LeBron's Miami days were a perfect example of teams that were horribly misunderstood, with most people not having a clear understanding as to why they were what they were: flawed teams with top heavy talent at first who were eventually able to iron out the wrinkles and become one of the most dominant groups in recent memory.

But with that said, in order to get to the LA part, we have to talk about the next, and arguably most important part, of LeBron's career: his second stint with Cleveland. Don't worry, this part will be much shorter, for reasons that I think will quickly become obvious as you read along.


I'm Coming Home: LeBron returns to Cleveland

Spoiler:
I'll be the first to admit that when LeBron first came back to Cleveland, I was excited (and that is massively underselling it), but I had some very real concerns. I think a lot of people here know by now that I'm not a Kyrie Irving fan, but the truth is, that goes back to well before he requested a trade from Cleveland, which is when a lot of fans from my city started hating him. I started disliking Irving pretty much from the moment it became clear that he had no idea how to lead a team. That, to me at least, became abundantly clear after his second season in the NBA. Yeah, I know, that's way too early to judge. But when you are this far in and you don't show a single sign of improvement as a player, on top of clearly still lacking maturity, that's a major red flag. LeBron didn't have this issue and keep in mind, he started out in the NBA at a younger age.

I'm not here to rag on Irving. The reason I'm mentioning this is that I couldn't for the life of me figure out how LeBron was going to make this work. On top of having Irving on the team, he also had Waiters, Thompson, and a bunch of other jabronis that don't deserve mention (Varejao was there though and I like him, so there's that). It felt like we were back to square one again with Miami, only this time it was worse. At least you had championship experience over there (well, sort of. Wade had it I guess).

And the acquisitions we made didn't make me feel any better about it. Mike Miller and James Jones? I was shocked that they even had playing time to begin with, especially since they were out of Miami's rotation in the fourth season (in fact were they both still even on the team on that point? I actually forget). Shawn Marion had a lot of people excited, but I already knew he wasn't going to be much of a difference maker for us. Getting Kevin Love via trade, as much as I loved the guy (no pun intended) didn't really settle me down much either. I still thought this Cavaliers team was going to suck. Where the hell was the defense supposed to come from? Where is the bench? What is the bench? Where's the spacing supposed to come from because Waiters and Varejao sure as hell aren't providing it. And at that point, Irving wasn't all that good as a spot up shooter yet, so you couldn't rely on him either. Granted, there were some reasons to be excited. Miami eventually figured things out with key acquisitions, and I knew it was only a matter of time before Cleveland did the same. And with David Blatt, one of best coaches in the world at that point, at the helm for Cleveland, I was at least confident that he would work something out even with the pile of **** he was handed.

But even despite that, in all honesty, going into the 2015 season, that excitement faded away and now I was just very concerned.

Thankfully, that all went away quickly thanks to ROLE PLAYERS.

Yeah, you knew where this was going.

After a very disappointing start to the season, with a 19-20 record and already close to the halfway point, it was clear that the roster needed major changes. There were already injury issues, Cleveland lacked depth, LeBron's shot was pretty much gone and he himself had injury problems, Waiters was so useless that Shawn Marion of all people became the starting SG,. Anderson Varejao also went down with a season ending injury, and just like that, Cleveland had no starting center. But worst of all, Kevin Love was having a very hard time fitting in with the team. Hell, it was somehow going even worse than it did for Chris Bosh in Miami. I know I just got done praising David Blatt, but this is actually one aspect of his tenure in Cleveland that I will always be very critical of. Rather than run with Love as the second option on offense to be used as an inside and out scoring weapon, Blatt opted to just make Love a permanent floor spreader in order to help LeBron have more spacing and utilize his (Blatt) offensive schemes that he liked to run in Europe. While that's all good and dandy, Kevin Love at the prime of his career was WAY too good to just be used as a floor spreader. Lue, the person who eventually replaced Blatt as the coach the following season, understood this and made an effort to at least correct it. I'll always contend that Cleveland did Blatt dirty, but this is one part of his coaching tenure that he royally **** up.

In other words, stop blaming LeBron for that one. It was Blatt's fault, not his.

But I'm getting off topic here. The point is, Cleveland had major roster issues and they needed to fix something fast. But with just a couple simple trades, Cleveland's fortune turned around very quickly.

First, let's get the one that was heavily rumored out of the way, and that's Timofey Mozgov getting traded for picks. There were rumors circulating at the time that Cleveland was going to make a trade for this guy as it felt like the right move at the time. He played under Blatt before, he was mobile, he could protect the rim, he at least had some decent offensive capabilities, and he was big. Perfect, get that man on the team. I personally didn't think much of the trade when it happened, but I'm happy that I was horribly wrong about how it'd turn out. Mozgov actually thrived while playing with Cleveland. On top of being a surprisingly great rim protector for them, thus enhancing Cleveland's defense overall, he was an even more surprisingly deadly offensive player. His ability to run the floor quickly for someone of his size and his unique skillset, along with playing alongside LeBron, gave him a lot of easy scoring opportunities that would routinely frustrate opposing teams. Hell, even Andrew Bogut, who was second team all defense that season, struggled to contain this guy in the finals despite clearly being a better player. For just a couple of picks, it looked like Cleveland committed highway robbery.

But that does not compare to the one that caught the entire Cleveland fanbase off guard, a trade that came out of nowhere and wasn't even being hinted at. That was, of course, the trade that sent JR Smith and Iman Shumpert over to Cleveland. Holy ****, you talk about turning trash into gold, Cleveland was somehow able to make a trade that involved getting rid of walking trash Waiters (although he became great in OKC so there you go), and they were able to get not one, but TWO very good and very capable SG's to fill out Cleveland's two guard rotation. Iman Shumpert was a 3/D guy, and a very good one at that and still pretty young, and JR Smith was a dynamite scorer with decent defense himself. And the guy was an excellent spot up shooter from deep. PERFECT!

I still to this day have no idea how we pulled that trade off. But getting these three players changed everything. All of a sudden, Cleveland was an elite defensive team with a variety of incredible offensive weapons and elite rebounding as well. Although I'll never agree with Blatt's decision to put Smith in the starting lineup over Shumpert (although Iman was injured at the time of the trade so I get that, but he still should have went in when he came back), it was still an incredibly dangerous team now. And good old Delly by this point had developed into a surprisingly great backup PG who could run the offense really well, could score from anywhere and was a damn good defensive player. It's really incredible how great this team turned out in such a short amount of time. Remember how they were 19-20 at one point? Well, they ended that season with a 53-29 record. That is a remarkable turnaround.

I know I said the Cleveland section would be shorter than the Miami one. And it is. I know it doesn't look like it will be as we have three more teams to go... but the thing is, and this is going to surprise some people... I actually think the 2015 Cavaliers are the best team LeBron played on during his second stint with the team. Yeah, I know. How could this possibly be better than the championship team or the 2017 team which was loaded offensively? Here's the thing about those two teams: one got lucky and the other one is horribly overrated.

Alright I guess I'll give a LITTLE more effort here but I'm going to try not to waste much time on it.

The 2016 Cavaliers did get some upgrades. Having Richard Jefferson coming off their bench was important as it added more experience and depth to the team. And getting Channing Frye for Varejao was pretty insane, as having ANOTHER floor spreading big pretty much unlocked Cleveland's offense. But they were never the same defensively, as Mozgov was practically unplayable at this point due to the knee surgery he had in the off season. And Thompson simply could not do a good job defending the rim. Him being forced to go to the starting unit also meant that Cleveland was deprived of their big difference maker off the bench. This team was more deep but the bench was still honestly worse. I understand that Cleveland was still technically a top ten defensive team this season. I understand that. But I'm going to point out two things. First off, the 2015 Cavaliers after acquiring Mozgov and integrating him into the team were also a top ten defensive team in the league. The 18th overall rating for that season is misleading, as they were not able to make up for how poorly they played in that department during the first 40 games of the season when they didn't have Mozgov on the team. I would absolutely argue that the 2015 team was superior at that end. And offensively, I've always felt that team was more well balanced anyways and the bench was better just due to having Thompson alone. Second, having someone who can at least hold their own in the paint is always going to be a bigger advantage defensively. Thompson simply could not do that, though he did the best he could given the circumstances I suppose. Still, his value defensively was his ability to defend on switches, especially out at the perimeter, which was actually helpful during the finals against Curry so there's that. But they never really had legitimate rim protection with him. It wasn't sustainable.

I never really liked the 2017 team and I don't think I ever will. Being able to get Kyle Korver was insane, and I actually think Derrick Williams was a pleasant surprise. And as we all know, this was the one and only time it ever felt like Kevin Love was back to superstar form again, as he was playing out of his mind that season. But overall, the team was a joke defensively, and Lue's weaknesses as a coach were on full display. He wanted the team to play at a fast pace, when in reality that was actually causing more harm long term than good. His rotations were very questionable, as were the way he constructed the lineups. Deron Williams unfortunately didn't pan out well as the backup PG when it came time for the postseason. And in the end, it never really felt like there was any cohesive system put in place. At least with Blatt, that was the case. Cleveland did become a historically good offensive team by the end of the season, but the amount of glaring problems in other aspects of the team are too much for me to ignore. Yes, I am well aware that this team was dominant in the postseason before they ran into Golden State as well. But the competition in the East in 2017 (and 2016 as well) was a joke. 2015 at least featured some pretty good teams in Chicago and Atlanta (who continue to get horribly underrated to this day due to the fact that Cleveland swept them without Love and a hobbled Irving).

Edit: I guess I'll take this time to mention this now: I never liked Lue as a coach in Cleveland. I don't deny that he improved over time and did pretty well in LA (even though I still think he got overrated and I'm glad people are starting to see that), but I hated the way he coached the Cavaliers. I've always said that the one and only good thing he ever did was get Kevin Love involved more in the offense. Apart from that, I'm convinced he had no idea what he was doing. His offensive game plan was based on running fast paced sets that relied very little on movement except from Kyle Korver, who usually just disregarded the plays that they were trying to run anyways to find his own shots. He went away from David Blatt's style entirely, and tried to rely heavily on the Cavaliers superior talent to overwhelm teams. This backfired rather famously against the Warriors, the one and only team in the NBA who were not only more talented, but by a pretty wide margin. The Cavaliers were also notably a MUCH worse defensive team under Lue than under Blatt. 2016 doesn't count because Lue basically just went by the schemes Blatt was running, but 2017 and 2018, the Cavaliers were miserable to watch at that end. And don't even get me started on Lue's rotations.

I've always felt that the 2015 team was the best one. And I don't think I'll ever walk back on that stance. It had their most complete starting five with a well rounded bench unit and their best coaching, and when the trades were implemented, this was the best version we had on both ends of the floor. I'm happy Cleveland did win a championship, but if I had to be picky, I wish this was the team that would have won it. Obviously if I had the ability to make that happen, I wouldn't, as the 3-1 comeback against the 73 win Warriors will always be an incredible memory to have for my lifetime, but sometimes I wish this team would get more credit than it deserved. And as many have claimed, had it not been for the unfortunate injuries that this team suffered, they probably would have won their first championship that very season. But alas, all worked out well in the end so hey there's that?

And no, I'm not going to talk about the 2018 team. There's no point.

Alright, now we're finally onto the LA part of this long ass post. If you made it this far, thank you. I appreciate your patience.


Hollywood Time! LeBron goes to LA

So, if you're here just for the Lakers part, just know that there are some major points I'll be referencing from his previous teams that apply here. One of the reasons why I went into so much depth about his previous tenures was to point out what truly elevated LeBron's teams and what didn't. I don't deny the importance of all star caliber teammates and what they bring to the table. It was because of all star teammates that LeBron was able to get over the hump and make it to an NBA finals in the first place again after missing it for three straight seasons. But it's also because of poor roster construction that he ended up losing said NBA Finals (among other reasons as well, but it was a factor no less). It's important to understand why roster construction matters and why it can make or break a team.

Just like it's also important to understand why all star caliber teammates are important too. They were the missing ingredient in LeBron's first run with Cleveland where he actually did have pretty good roster construction, but he never had anyone that could step up and play at a high level when it mattered most. The key is to find the balance, and you don't always get that. Sometimes the stars align and it just all falls into place perfectly, like all the pieces are able to fit flawlessly with little difficulty. Some superstar players have been blessed to have this happen to them in their careers. Even the GOAT had this happen... twice.

LeBron however didn't experience such luck... until he reached the 2020 season, which is ironic given how unlucky this year was for the majority of the people living on this planet. In fact unless your name is Jeff Bezos, I don't really know anyone who legitimately benefited from this year.

First, a brief talk about the 2019 Lakers, because they do matter. This was infamously the first time LeBron missed the playoffs since 2005. There were a couple of reasons as to why this happened (and no, none of them are due to LeBron himself). But the one I want to focus on is roster construction. One thing people don't really mention all that much is that... this roster was kind of terrible. Don't get me wrong, there was some really great talent on it. But overall... it was a pretty poorly constructed roster. I'm not going to analyze this. They aren't the focus of this thread.

It's the team that proceeded them.

So as we all know, the Lakers made a trade to bring in Anthony Davis. The Lakers gave up loads of assets for this, including Ingram, Ball, Hart, and three first round picks. Looking back on it, it's pretty easy to be critical of the Lakers for giving up so much just to get Davis, especially when you consider what kind of player Ingram became. Me? I choose to focus on how great of a fit LeBron and AD turned out to be. And with this, I want to address the first and probably most important reason as to why this is the best team LeBron ever had: the lack of need for a third star.

This might blow a lot of people's minds, but the truth of the matter is that Bosh and Love were never really needed for their respective teams. Hell, I can take that one step further and say Wade and Irving weren't either. The truth of the matter is that it wouldn't have mattered if LeBron were in Miami with just Bosh or if he were in Cleveland with just Love. He would have more than likely won his championships one way or another (although 2013 probably ends in defeat if it weren't for Bosh, but I'll briefly go over that in a moment). Hell, he kind of did in 2016 when you consider the fact that Love was concussed for most of the finals (but he was important in the playoffs preceding that, this can't be ignored). The point is, LeBron didn't need a big three. He needed a sidekick. He needed a legitimate sidekick, one with an all star caliber impact on the floor on a nightly basis, who didn't need LeBron himself in order to be one. The closest he ever had before going to Miami was Mo Williams, and he became an all star entirely because he got to play the SG role and allowed LeBron to run the offense. The 2020 Lakers were proof that one all star was really all LeBron ever needed to begin with. Now granted, AD isn't your ordinary all star. 2020 AD was a superstar caliber player, a top 10, if not top 5 player in the league. That's a pretty significant difference. But the thing is, we've seen two top five players on one team fail. Hell, KD and Russ famously failed to win a championship in OKC, even though they were both arguably top 5 players at one point (feel free to disagree if you want, just making a point). And you can point to a number of reasons for that. So what allowed LeBron and AD to succeed when they couldn't?

Roster construction. See, it wouldn't have mattered how good LeBron and AD were if the roster surrounding them wasn't working them. I think 2022 demonstrated that (do I need to show the image again? I don't think I do). With this new superstar duo, the Lakers front office were tasked with building a contender around these two and making it work. And with that, we start the breakdown. First, we need to point out who the Lakers actually kept on the team.

First, they did something that surprised even me and they kept JaVale McGee around. I actually thought, for whatever reason, that this guy was gone after this trade happened. I don't know why, because looking back on it, hindsight is a bitch. McGee made all the sense in the world to keep around, especially when you consider his championship experience with the Warriors. He's actually a guy you'd want to keep. Why? Well for one thing, he was a legit rim protector who was at least mobile and capable of bullying other players. That was huge for LA. It meant Davis didn't have to transition over to center, which allowed him to dominate at the position he was most comfortable at. But it also created a deadly frontcourt duo defensively. I've mentioned before that without Bosh, Miami probably loses in 2013. That's because despite my claim that Miami didn't need another all star after LeBron/Wade, they DID need someone who could actually be a force downlow and protect the rim and make an impact offensively. Bosh put in the work and effort to make that transition, and thus he was able to breathe new life into Miami's team and redefine his purpose. But now let me ask you a question: do you think Miami would have had any trouble finding someone who could do that while costing much less money? I'm not going to answer yes or no to that question, because I myself don't know. So what's the point I'm trying to make here? The point is that the 2020 Lakers had that with McGee. No, he wasn't as good of a player overall, he didn't need to be. All that mattered was that he was there to protect the rim, rebound, and just be a big body who could hang with the other big centers of the league. The main point was to keep Davis away from center. And he was able to do that.

Another player they kept was Kyle Kuzma. Just like with the 2013 Miami Heat, and the 2015 Cleveland Cavaliers (Thompson), the 2020 Lakers had their Bill Walton. In this case, it was Kuzma. Kuzma was capable of creating his own shot and scoring from anywhere on the floor. His overall numbers went down due to transitioning to a bench role, but 12.8 PPG is nothing to laugh at for your sixth man. For a team like this, that is tremendous value. He wasn't anything special defensively, but that was something they were willing to (and were able to get away with) live with.

Caldwell-Pope is another player who stayed. Starting 26 games on the season, and at 6'6, he proved to be an extremely valuable asset for the Lakers as he was long and tall enough to help the defensive minded Lakers team be dominant at that end. And he shot 39% from deep that season, allowing extra spacing to help LeBron and AD dominate in the paint.

We all know about Alex Caruso and what he brought to the table.

But now it is time to discuss the players who were brought into the fray, the ones who the Lakers felt were good candidates to bring on over in the offseason.

The Lakers brought in the likes of Avery Bradly, Danny Green, Rajon Rondo, Dwight Howard. Yes, there are some other players that were brought in too. But these are the ones I want to focus on specifically in order to point out what the Lakers were trying to build here and what each guy brought to the team. I'll get the easy ones out of the way.

Bradley and Green, two additional 3/D players now added to the bunch. Both very capable defenders, both players you couldn't leave alone at the perimeter. Yes, Bradley was nowhere close to the player he once was. But again, he didn't need to be. He needed to be a guy who could provide defense, and be able to hit the outside shots. He didn't do that at the rate they probably hoped (36%), but it's still enough to make a difference. Danny Green was also not the player he once was, but again, he didn't need to be. Just having these two players out there alone was enough to make a big enough difference. It's one thing when you have one good perimeter defender. But when you have multiple? It makes all the difference in the world. The opposing team is still forced to work even more for their shots. They are still going to be bothered. That was huge.

But it's the Rondo and Howard acquisitions that are the most important to me.

I mentioned before that Kuzma was LA's Bill Walton. Truth be told, they had three. While none of them on their own equaled the impact Walton had on the 86 Celtics, having three players of this caliber coming off the bench was just... insane.

Let's start with Dwight. Like a few others that I mentioned, I consider the 2020 season to be Dwight's redemption arc. Even though he was showing signs of that during his time with Washington, Dwight showed that he was still capable of being a winning basketball player, and that he could make a positive impact on a team. I was actually very happy for him that he got to experience this, because he had been the butt of everyone's jokes for a long time now since the first stint with LA went so poorly. In 2020, Dwight showcased just how much of a beast he can still be. Like Kevin Love in 2022, the thing with Dwight was that even though he was no where close to the player he once was, he was still good enough to be a starting caliber player in the league. So when he was asked to be their bench player, I don't know why I wasn't expecting him to just be a dominant player, which he ended up being. The thing about this is that most teams don't have any backups that are capable of dealing with a player like Dwight Howard. So being able to have him was just unfair. Add to that the fact that when it wasn't him, you had Javale McGee AND Anthony Davis to deal with? Yeah, that kind of sucked. Dwight at this point in his career was still capable of bullying his way to baskets inside, he was still a very good rebounder, and he was still a really great rim protector. In the 2020 season, Dwight averaged 7.5 PPG, 7.3 RPG, and 1.1 BPG. Just to put that into perspective, when using the per36 minutes stats, they come out to 14.3 PPG, 14 RPG, and 2.2 BPG. That is how dominant Dwight was as the backup center. And with all the spacing that he was being given from the way the team was constructed, Dwight was given all the room in the world to just do whatever he wanted in the paint. And there wasn't much opposing teams could do about it. A lot of people questioned the signing at the time, but this was just a brilliant pickup and a steal for the Lakers. And as I said before, I'm very happy that Dwight got to experience this. He won a ring in the end and I'm glad he was able to.

But now we get to the next player... and that is Rajon Rondo.

2020 is where the term "playoff Rondo" became a thing. His performance in the 2020 NBA Finals still gets praised to this day, and rightfully so. But I want to talk about what having Rondo meant not only for this team, but for LeBron. But first, we need to briefly mention what Rondo could still do at this point in his career. He was still very good at running the offense. He was still a very crafty player who breakdown defenses and find a way to score inside. He was still a pretty good defender. As I said with the others, way past his prime, but he didn't need to be a prime player to begin with. So with all of this in mind, it's time to discuss the big advantage he brought to the team.

See, the Miami Heat and Cleveland Cavaliers teams, even at their best, had one flaw: the lack a legitimate playmaking PG who could keep the team running whenever LeBron sat. The 2015 Cavaliers were the closest to having this with Delly, who was actually pretty good at it. But Cleveland's second unit wasn't capable enough to really keep them going the way the 2020 Lakers could. I guess the 2013 Miami Heat had it with Wade, but either way, it was never close to this. The 2020 Lakers felt like the first time in LeBron's entire career where he could go to the bench, and he didn't have to worry about whether or not the Lakers were going to have their **** together. Rondo was able to keep things going in the right direction, as he had so much to work with that it didn't matter. The Lakers ran a different combination of lineups whenever Rondo ran the offense, and each came with their advantages and disadvantages, but he always had someone who could dominate inside (whether it be Davis or Howard) and plenty of shooters to work with. That was all he ever needed to make this work.

In 2020, LeBron played 34.6 MPG. That is, to this day, the second lowest of his career, with 2021 being the lone exception (that one had Caruso running the backup PG spot). And Rondo is a critical reason for that.

All of this leads to why I ultimately think that, despite the 2013 Miami Heat being the greatest team LeBron was ever a part of, the 2020 Lakers are the greatest team LeBron ever HAD. Yes, there's a difference.

The 2013 Miami Heat will always be remembered as the best LeBron led team. But the difference between 2013 and 2020 LeBron is night and day. No matter how well LeBron played in 2020, it doesn't hold a candle to what he was at the height of his career as a player. Still an incredible player and MVP caliber, but nothing close to arguably the most dominant player we had ever seen in NBA history. I want you to think, just for a second, about how much better the 2020 Lakers would have been if it had the 2013 version of LeBron instead. Keeping in mind that you have LeBron's improved shooting (64% TS in 2013 compared to 58% in 2020, and this is with all the extra spacing he would have), his elite defense (was second in DPOY voting in 2013), and his out of this world athleticism at the peak of his career. Imagine what he could have done with that Lakers roster.

I don't deny that the 2013 Miami Heat had a really great roster around LeBron. But what surrounded LeBron in 2020 was just so much better for him as a player. It was the one that fit him the most. A lot of veteran 3/D players, great rim protecting bigs, guys who could create their own shot, and a superstar caliber player who could pretty much do it all in Anthony Davis. A good combination of young and hungry players with primed athletes and seasoned but still very valuable veterans. And I know we like to clown Vogel, but the truth is, he was set up for failure with the Westbrook situation. He did a great job as the head coach in 2020. This was about as perfect of a team as you could have asked for. And I'm sure LeBron would agree with that claim.

It's hard to imagine the Lakers falling from grace so quickly, which they did just two years later due to an infamous trade. But either way, despite how his LA tenure has gone so far, the 2020 Lakers to me aren't just the lone bright spot, they are a showcase of what can happen when you get the right pieces to fit together. Fit matters, and I'm glad to see that, at least in this case, it worked out exactly how they hoped it would.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:39 am
by KobesScarf
Dwight and even more so Rondo is what made them great. 2 legitimately great role players way way way better than guys like Battier, Birdman, Thompson JR Smith etc

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:57 am
by Cavsfansince84
I do think that team gets overly hated on due to the bubble and playing an injured Heat team in the finals and I don't think any amount of research or w/e will change that among general nba fans but having said that, I think it was a somewhat strong team(even if Davis' play was sort of flukey and their big two probably benefited a lot from how spread out the season was). I also think 2020 LeBron is a top 6-7 version of him.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:00 am
by TheLand13
Cavsfansince84 wrote:I do think that team gets overly hated on due to the bubble and playing an injured Heat team in the finals and I don't think any amount of research or w/e will change that among general nba fans but having said that, I think it was a somewhat strong team(even if Davis' play was sort of flukey and their big two probably benefited a lot from how spread out the season was). I also think 2020 LeBron is a top 6-7 version of him.


How good LeBron was at this point is irrelevant. That's not the point of the thread. It's about the team that was built AROUND LeBron.

This is the first team I can think of (apart from, oddly enough, the one he's playing on right now) that could win games without him. And while I don't have any sample size to go off of to prove it, the fact that I'm confident in that says it all. I don't share that same confidence about any of the other teams he's played on in his career.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:06 am
by tone wone
TheLand13 wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:I do think that team gets overly hated on due to the bubble and playing an injured Heat team in the finals and I don't think any amount of research or w/e will change that among general nba fans but having said that, I think it was a somewhat strong team(even if Davis' play was sort of flukey and their big two probably benefited a lot from how spread out the season was). I also think 2020 LeBron is a top 6-7 version of him.


How good LeBron was at this point is irrelevant. That's not the point of the thread. It's about the team that was built AROUND LeBron.

This is the first team I can think of (apart from, oddly enough, the one he's playing on right now) that could win games without him. And while I don't have any sample size to go off of to prove it, the fact that I'm confident in that says it all. I don't share that same confidence about any of the other teams he's played on in his career.

I just don't know about a team that's so reliant on James as ball-handler can be perfectly built for him. Those guards were great defensively but they may have been the worst ball-handling/passing guard rotation in the league. And I don't care how good you think Rondo was that postseason....he was goddamn horrible in the regular season. One of the absolute worse rotational players in the league.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:31 am
by TheGOATRises007
Good write-up.

I consider the 2017 Cavs team the best team LeBron's been on. You note about the weak East that year(which is true), but the Cavs absolutely steamrolled through the East and they had an offense that was just video-game level good in the playoffs(they ran into a better one amazingly in the finals). I think they would have steamrolled the East in 2015 too.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:32 am
by KobesScarf
TheGOATRises007 wrote:Good write-up.

I consider the 2017 Cavs team the best team LeBron's been on. You note about the weak East that year(which is true), but the Cavs absolutely steamrolled through the East and they had an offense that was just video-game level good in the playoffs(they ran into a better one amazingly in the finals). I think they would have steamrolled the East in 2015 too.
I think this is a fairly insane take. Just go down the roster

AD >>>>>> Love
Dwight/Javale >>>>> Thompson/Frye
Pope <<<<<< Kyrie
Rondo >>>>>>>>>>>> Deron
Green <<< JR
Kuzma >>> Korver
Carusso > Shump
Morris > Jefferson

Also Vogel >>> Lue

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:23 pm
by TheLand13
tone wone wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:I do think that team gets overly hated on due to the bubble and playing an injured Heat team in the finals and I don't think any amount of research or w/e will change that among general nba fans but having said that, I think it was a somewhat strong team(even if Davis' play was sort of flukey and their big two probably benefited a lot from how spread out the season was). I also think 2020 LeBron is a top 6-7 version of him.


How good LeBron was at this point is irrelevant. That's not the point of the thread. It's about the team that was built AROUND LeBron.

This is the first team I can think of (apart from, oddly enough, the one he's playing on right now) that could win games without him. And while I don't have any sample size to go off of to prove it, the fact that I'm confident in that says it all. I don't share that same confidence about any of the other teams he's played on in his career.

I just don't know about a team that's so reliant on James as ball-handler can be perfectly built for him. Those guards were great defensively but they may have been the worst ball-handling/passing guard rotation in the league. And I don't care how good you think Rondo was that postseason....he was goddamn horrible in the regular season. One of the absolute worse rotational players in the league.


One of the worst rotational players is a stretch, but either way, Caruso was also a backup PG as well. And it didn't really matter if they were terrible ball handling guards or not. The Lakers made the smart choice of making LeBron the fulltime PG whenever he played (which resulted in him leading the league in assists that season).

TheGOATRises007 wrote:Good write-up.

I consider the 2017 Cavs team the best team LeBron's been on. You note about the weak East that year(which is true), but the Cavs absolutely steamrolled through the East and they had an offense that was just video-game level good in the playoffs(they ran into a better one amazingly in the finals). I think they would have steamrolled the East in 2015 too.


That 2017 team just has way too many holes. A pretty weak bench unit outside of Korver (who was really good, I will admit that). No defense. Terrible coaching. Almost no offensive system in place.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:31 pm
by tone wone
The 2020 Lakers were a very unique team. They came off the heels of the KD Warriors so our standards for championship level teams were probably out of wack. There flaws...half court scoring, 3point shooting, secondary ball handlers were loud. Leaving their great strength...defense underrated.

They were crazy versatile. Even without a protypical big wing stopper they had a case for being the most talented defensive team in the league. With a great defensive coach in Vogel.

I know when the league shut down they had the 3rd rated offense but til this day I have no earthly idea how. They must've been the greatest transition team in league history because it sure didn't feel like you were ever watching a great offense.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:00 am
by rk2023
tone wone wrote:The 2020 Lakers were a very unique team. They came off the heels of the KD Warriors so our standards for championship level teams were probably out of wack. There flaws...half court scoring, 3point shooting, secondary ball handlers were loud. Leaving their great strength...defense underrated.

They were crazy versatile. Even without a protypical big wing stopper they had a case for being the most talented defensive team in the league. With a great defensive coach in Vogel.

I know when the league shut down they had the 3rd rated offense but til this day I have no earthly idea how. They must've been the greatest transition team in league history because it sure didn't feel like you were ever watching a great offense.


LeBron James setting the standard for the league and redefining the standard for his career as a playmaker just may muck enough up to yield a solid offense.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:39 am
by dooki667
rk2023 wrote:
tone wone wrote:The 2020 Lakers were a very unique team. They came off the heels of the KD Warriors so our standards for championship level teams were probably out of wack. There flaws...half court scoring, 3point shooting, secondary ball handlers were loud. Leaving their great strength...defense underrated.

They were crazy versatile. Even without a protypical big wing stopper they had a case for being the most talented defensive team in the league. With a great defensive coach in Vogel.

I know when the league shut down they had the 3rd rated offense but til this day I have no earthly idea how. They must've been the greatest transition team in league history because it sure didn't feel like you were ever watching a great offense.


LeBron James setting the standard for the league and redefining the standard for his career as a playmaker just may muck enough up to yield a solid offense.

I feel like AD getting underrated as well he was pretty healthy that year 27 on 61 ts team was 7th in offensive rebounding as well good offense seems natural

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:53 am
by rk2023
dooki667 wrote:
rk2023 wrote:
tone wone wrote:The 2020 Lakers were a very unique team. They came off the heels of the KD Warriors so our standards for championship level teams were probably out of wack. There flaws...half court scoring, 3point shooting, secondary ball handlers were loud. Leaving their great strength...defense underrated.

They were crazy versatile. Even without a protypical big wing stopper they had a case for being the most talented defensive team in the league. With a great defensive coach in Vogel.

I know when the league shut down they had the 3rd rated offense but til this day I have no earthly idea how. They must've been the greatest transition team in league history because it sure didn't feel like you were ever watching a great offense.


LeBron James setting the standard for the league and redefining the standard for his career as a playmaker just may muck enough up to yield a solid offense.

I feel like AD getting underrated as well he was pretty healthy that year 27 on 61 ts team was 7th in offensive rebounding as well good offense seems natural


Yeah, from what I remember the team was built far more around Bron-ball than maximizing AD , and rather having Davis serve as a very good ceiling raiser next to James that can get his , defend , and play efficiently next to him. Iirc on-off combinations validate this. Either way, both were my top two players that season (with an emphasis on PS) and couldn’t be more grateful for both for bringing a title here.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:27 am
by TheGOATRises007
TheLand13 wrote:
tone wone wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
How good LeBron was at this point is irrelevant. That's not the point of the thread. It's about the team that was built AROUND LeBron.

This is the first team I can think of (apart from, oddly enough, the one he's playing on right now) that could win games without him. And while I don't have any sample size to go off of to prove it, the fact that I'm confident in that says it all. I don't share that same confidence about any of the other teams he's played on in his career.

I just don't know about a team that's so reliant on James as ball-handler can be perfectly built for him. Those guards were great defensively but they may have been the worst ball-handling/passing guard rotation in the league. And I don't care how good you think Rondo was that postseason....he was goddamn horrible in the regular season. One of the absolute worse rotational players in the league.


One of the worst rotational players is a stretch, but either way, Caruso was also a backup PG as well. And it didn't really matter if they were terrible ball handling guards or not. The Lakers made the smart choice of making LeBron the fulltime PG whenever he played (which resulted in him leading the league in assists that season).

TheGOATRises007 wrote:Good write-up.

I consider the 2017 Cavs team the best team LeBron's been on. You note about the weak East that year(which is true), but the Cavs absolutely steamrolled through the East and they had an offense that was just video-game level good in the playoffs(they ran into a better one amazingly in the finals). I think they would have steamrolled the East in 2015 too.


That 2017 team just has way too many holes. A pretty weak bench unit outside of Korver (who was really good, I will admit that). No defense. Terrible coaching. Almost no offensive system in place.


The 2020 team has holes too. Why are you critiquing a 'lack of offensive system' though when it produced the best playoff offense in NBA history?

And Lue isn't a terrible coach imo.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:56 am
by dooki667
rk2023 wrote:
dooki667 wrote:
rk2023 wrote:
LeBron James setting the standard for the league and redefining the standard for his career as a playmaker just may muck enough up to yield a solid offense.

I feel like AD getting underrated as well he was pretty healthy that year 27 on 61 ts team was 7th in offensive rebounding as well good offense seems natural


Yeah, from what I remember the team was built far more around Bron-ball than maximizing AD , and rather having Davis serve as a very good ceiling raiser next to James that can get his , defend , and play efficiently next to him. Iirc on-off combinations validate this. Either way, both were my top two players that season (with an emphasis on PS) and couldn’t be more grateful for both for bringing a title here.

Yeah hard to disagree with that AD TS was 67.5 with some great defense and Bron wasn't far behind add the playmaking on top it was a heck of a run.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:37 am
by TheLand13
TheGOATRises007 wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
tone wone wrote:I just don't know about a team that's so reliant on James as ball-handler can be perfectly built for him. Those guards were great defensively but they may have been the worst ball-handling/passing guard rotation in the league. And I don't care how good you think Rondo was that postseason....he was goddamn horrible in the regular season. One of the absolute worse rotational players in the league.


One of the worst rotational players is a stretch, but either way, Caruso was also a backup PG as well. And it didn't really matter if they were terrible ball handling guards or not. The Lakers made the smart choice of making LeBron the fulltime PG whenever he played (which resulted in him leading the league in assists that season).

TheGOATRises007 wrote:Good write-up.

I consider the 2017 Cavs team the best team LeBron's been on. You note about the weak East that year(which is true), but the Cavs absolutely steamrolled through the East and they had an offense that was just video-game level good in the playoffs(they ran into a better one amazingly in the finals). I think they would have steamrolled the East in 2015 too.


That 2017 team just has way too many holes. A pretty weak bench unit outside of Korver (who was really good, I will admit that). No defense. Terrible coaching. Almost no offensive system in place.


The 2020 team has holes too. Why are you critiquing a 'lack of offensive system' though when it produced the best playoff offense in NBA history?

And Lue isn't a terrible coach imo.


Because a team that relies heavily through one player is almost never actually a good team. And we've seen countless examples of this throughout the history of basketball. A good team should be able to at least cover for the absence of their best player. And at the end of the day, the whole point of this thread is discussing what was around LeBron, not him included. So either way, there's no way the 2017 team comes close to fitting that criteria.

And again, that Eastern Conference was incredibly weak. I don't care how great offensively that team was or the numbers they put on. They were just on another level talent wise compared to their competition. There's a reason why once they finally faced a legitimately great team (or in this case one of the greatest teams of all time, but still), they got destroyed.

Re: Why the 2020 Lakers are the best team LeBron ever played on

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:20 pm
by FlyingScotsman
TheLand13 wrote:
TheGOATRises007 wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
One of the worst rotational players is a stretch, but either way, Caruso was also a backup PG as well. And it didn't really matter if they were terrible ball handling guards or not. The Lakers made the smart choice of making LeBron the fulltime PG whenever he played (which resulted in him leading the league in assists that season).



That 2017 team just has way too many holes. A pretty weak bench unit outside of Korver (who was really good, I will admit that). No defense. Terrible coaching. Almost no offensive system in place.


The 2020 team has holes too. Why are you critiquing a 'lack of offensive system' though when it produced the best playoff offense in NBA history?

And Lue isn't a terrible coach imo.


Because a team that relies heavily through one player is almost never actually a good team. And we've seen countless examples of this throughout the history of basketball. A good team should be able to at least cover for the absence of their best player. And at the end of the day, the whole point of this thread is discussing what was around LeBron, not him included. So either way, there's no way the 2017 team comes close to fitting that criteria.

And again, that Eastern Conference was incredibly weak. I don't care how great offensively that team was or the numbers they put on. They were just on another level talent wise compared to their competition. There's a reason why once they finally faced a legitimately great team (or in this case one of the greatest teams of all time, but still), they got destroyed.


I wouldn’t say the 17 Cavs relied on Bron more than the Lakers did he’s played practically the same style on every team for over a decade.

AD definitely ran the defence and was a comparable scorer in some ways but Bron was undoubtedly better back in 2017 on pure athleticism alone and the team seemed to click perfectly.

Either way I don’t see the Cavs struggling to beat that Miami team and the 20 Lakers likely still lose to the 17 Warriors.
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