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Who are you candidates? Best consecutive 3 year offensive runs?

I'll start with Jokic:

Consider that in the past 228 games (including the playoffs, dating back to the beginning of 2020-2021), Jokic has put up a slash line of:

26.4/12.2/8.4 on +9.0 rTS% (while leading all centers in steals by a massive margin):

The only player in NBA history to put up a slash line of 26.4/12.2/8.4 in any 82 game season is Oscar Robertson, all the way back in 61'-62', and he did it in a game that featured 127 possessions per game, playing 44 MPG.

Jokic, on the other hand, has done this in a league averaging only 99 possessions per game, and while playing only 34 MPG. And, he's sustained it for nearly 3 full seasons.

That is astounding.

For those who prefer advanced metrics (that we have for all eras of the NBA), here are a few objective things to consider:

1. His 31.8 PER across the last 228 games stacks up against the best (single) seasons of Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, and Lebron James.

2. His BPM is 11.8, which stacks up against anything Michael Jordan ever did in a (single) season. It falls top 6 all time among single season BPM totals.

3. His TS% of .663 would be third all time among all high volume 3 point shooters, such as himself (3+ 3PA/G). And again, that's compared to only an 82 game sample for the other players.

He's done all of this while shooting an outstanding .833 from the line an incredible .365 from three point range on very high volume. Consider, too, that he's a 7 foot, 290 lb center, not a small, adroit, shooting focused guard.

Jokic isn't a bad choice, but I'd probably take 1988-90 Magic (or 1987-89 Magic) over it, along with some LeBron (2012-14 or 2016-18) and Jordan (1989-91 or 1991-93) stretches. Others in mind:

1963-65 Oscar
2005-07 Nash
1977-79 Kareem
1984-86 Bird
2015-17 Curry

70sFan wrote:Jokic isn't a bad choice, but I'd probably take 1988-90 Magic (or 1987-89 Magic) over it, along with some LeBron (2012-14 or 2016-18) and Jordan (1989-91 or 1991-93) stretches.

Can you substantiate this with facts and statistics?

ty 4191 wrote:

70sFan wrote:Jokic isn't a bad choice, but I'd probably take 1988-90 Magic (or 1987-89 Magic) over it, along with some LeBron (2012-14 or 2016-18) and Jordan (1989-91 or 1991-93) stretches.

Can you substantiate this with facts and statistics?

I can, but I don't have the time to do that now. There has been so many discussions about the best offensive players ever on this board that you can find some of them by yourself.

Note that I don't say Jokic has no case over these three - far from it - only that for now I would feel more comfortable with them.

70sFan wrote:I can, but I don't have the time to do that now.

When you have time, I'd really appreciate your input. Thank you, 70's!

70sFan wrote:Jokic isn't a bad choice, but I'd probably take 1988-90 Magic (or 1987-89 Magic) over it, along with some LeBron (2012-14 or 2016-18) and Jordan (1989-91 or 1991-93) stretches. Others in mind:

1963-65 Oscar
2005-07 Nash
1977-79 Kareem
1984-86 Bird
2015-17 Curry

2016-2018 LeBron James [See you mentioned]
2006-2008 Dirk [Dirk had Net On/Off of +11.3, +14.6 and +10.8 in the 3 seasons]
2013-2015 CP3
2019-2021 Lillard
2018-2020 Harden

No order

89-91 Jordan
05-07 Nash
87-89 Magic
15-17 Curry
09-11 / 12-14 Lebron
89-91 Barkley
86-88 Bird
00-02 Shaq
62-64 Oscar
18-20 Cauley-Stein

I don’t want to be held to any kind of order but here goes my top 10.

89-91 Jordan
16-18 Lebron
15-17 Curry
62-64 Oscar
21-23 Jokic
05-07 Nash
84-86 Bird
87-89 Magic
09-11 Dirk
06-08 Kobe

89-91 Magic
89-91 Jordan
16-18 James
15-17 Curry
05-07 Nash
62-64 Robertson

After those, I could see this being Jokic’s high end for a three year offensive spree.

I actually think 14-16 KD is up there despite the injury in 2015 or you could use 16-18. Surprised at how few mentions of Kareem as well.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I actually think 14-16 KD is up there despite the injury in 2015 or you could use 16-18. Surprised at how few mentions of Kareem as well.

Rationale in the case for Durant?

I've never been that high on his value as a floor raiser (resiliency and self-creation concerns, not a facilitator to the extent I view other great forwards/swing-men on offense). Excluding GSW, which ultimately was a situation he made the most out of at his best to Durant's credit, I haven't been the most impressed with his PS track record though he has had some spectacular moments and series. I view him and players such as Nowitzki/Wade/Harden to be a good comparison on offense.

Unsure about Kareem, but considering a more relative-to-era approach with that corresponding context and looking more relative to his position.. I am more keen on an argument in his favor.

rk2023 wrote:
Rationale in the case for Durant?

I've never been that high on his value as a floor raiser (resiliency and self-creation concerns, not a facilitator to the extent I view other great forwards/swing-men on offense). Excluding GSW, which ultimately was a situation he made the most out of at his best to Durant's credit, I haven't been the most impressed with his PS track record though he has had some spectacular moments and series. I view him and players such as Nowitzki/Wade/Harden to be a good comparison on offense.

Unsure about Kareem, but considering a more relative-to-era approach with that corresponding context and looking more relative to his position.. I am more keen on an argument in his favor.

If its a matter of being top 5 then I'd agree, if its more like top 10-12 then I think he deserves a mention. Close to 400 ts add to go with decent playmaking and teams that were top 2 in ORtg 4 times while he was in Okc. Which doesn't count 2014(probably his best year) when they lost WB and were still 6th. Also 3 straight years(14-16) with obpm above 8(Dirk in comparison maxed out at 7.8).

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

rk2023 wrote:
Rationale in the case for Durant?

I've never been that high on his value as a floor raiser (resiliency and self-creation concerns, not a facilitator to the extent I view other great forwards/swing-men on offense). Excluding GSW, which ultimately was a situation he made the most out of at his best to Durant's credit, I haven't been the most impressed with his PS track record though he has had some spectacular moments and series. I view him and players such as Nowitzki/Wade/Harden to be a good comparison on offense.

Unsure about Kareem, but considering a more relative-to-era approach with that corresponding context and looking more relative to his position.. I am more keen on an argument in his favor.

If its a matter of being top 5 then I'd agree, if its more like top 10-12 then I think he deserves a mention. Close to 400 ts add to go with decent playmaking and teams that were top 2 in ORtg 4 times while he was in Okc. Which doesn't count 2014(probably his best year) when they lost WB and were still 6th.

Fair enough. I am definitely higher on his RS effort, as rattling off and stockpiling +7 rTS / 114 TS+ seasons like second nature is no small feat.. regardless of PS resiliency. By no means am I a fan of Durant or high on him (there's others on this board lower on him as a player than me I believe so), but I ultimately think his scalability and longevity - has been a scoring force from 2010 through 2023 - on offense does sometimes get under-appreciated.

rk2023 wrote:
Fair enough. I am definitely higher on his RS effort, as rattling off and stockpiling +7 rTS / 114 TS+ seasons like second nature is no small feat.. regardless of PS resiliency. By no means am I a fan of Durant or high on him (there's others on this board lower on him as a player than me I believe so), but I ultimately think his scalability and longevity - has been a scoring force from 2010 through 2023 - on offense does sometimes get under-appreciated.

More so his 14-16 years for me. I would have loved to have seen KD in his 2017-2019 years just playing with someone other than WB on teams built around him.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

rk2023 wrote:
Rationale in the case for Durant?

I've never been that high on his value as a floor raiser (resiliency and self-creation concerns, not a facilitator to the extent I view other great forwards/swing-men on offense). Excluding GSW, which ultimately was a situation he made the most out of at his best to Durant's credit, I haven't been the most impressed with his PS track record though he has had some spectacular moments and series. I view him and players such as Nowitzki/Wade/Harden to be a good comparison on offense.

Unsure about Kareem, but considering a more relative-to-era approach with that corresponding context and looking more relative to his position.. I am more keen on an argument in his favor.

If its a matter of being top 5 then I'd agree, if its more like top 10-12 then I think he deserves a mention. Close to 400 ts add to go with decent playmaking and teams that were top 2 in ORtg 4 times while he was in Okc. Which doesn't count 2014(probably his best year) when they lost WB and were still 6th. Also 3 straight years(14-16) with obpm above 8(Dirk in comparison maxed out at 7.8).

Wanted to also add

1. 1991 Jordan
2. 2017 James (/18)
3. 1990 Johnson (/87)
4. 2017 Curry
5. 2007 Nash
6. 2023 Jokic (could move up that said)
7. 1964 Robertson (/63)
8. 2000 O’Neal
9. 1986 Bird
10. 1966 West (/68)
11. 2008 Bryant (/09)
12. 1977 Abdul-Jabbar
13. 2009 Wade (/10)
14. 2011 Nowitzki (/06)
15. 2020 Harden
16. 2003 McGrady
17. 2017 Durant (/14)
18. 2015 Paul (/08)
19. 2021 Leonard
20. 1990 Barkley (/93?)

This is how I rank historical peaks (T-20) on offense.

Out of this group and taking a more additive / aggregate prime approach, feel confident saying Durant and Dirk for me would be tied for 13th (both over-passing Wade). 10-12 could be reasonable to bat for with such a criteria

89-91 Jordan
12-14 LeBron
76-78 Kareem
87-89 Magic
00-02 Shaq
84-86 Bird
15-17 Curry
64-66 Robertson
64-66 West
06-08 Kobe

Narigo wrote:89-91 Jordan
12-14 LeBron
76-78 Kareem
87-89 Magic
00-02 Shaq
84-86 Bird
15-17 Curry
64-66 Robertson
64-66 West
06-08 Kobe

What makes Kobe better than Dirk?

Colbinii wrote:

Narigo wrote:89-91 Jordan
12-14 LeBron
76-78 Kareem
87-89 Magic
00-02 Shaq
84-86 Bird
15-17 Curry
64-66 Robertson
64-66 West
06-08 Kobe

What makes Kobe better than Dirk?

The disparity in on-ball playmaking and creation for me.

rk2023 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

Narigo wrote:89-91 Jordan
12-14 LeBron
76-78 Kareem
87-89 Magic
00-02 Shaq
84-86 Bird
15-17 Curry
64-66 Robertson
64-66 West
06-08 Kobe

What makes Kobe better than Dirk?

The disparity in on-ball playmaking and creation for me.

much better ball-handler too, not to mention him being a strong off-ball player as well

OhayoKD wrote:

rk2023 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
What makes Kobe better than Dirk?

The disparity in on-ball playmaking and creation for me.

much better ball-handler too, not to mention him being a strong off-ball player as well

Pertaining to ball-handling and more outside of the box-score topics:

Agreed with your points fully. I think (as many have alluded to), Dirk is under-appreciated in the regards of how unorthodoxly unique his floor-opening "gravity" ability was due to positional value - but even then I give Kobe the gravity edge due to him being a more potent on-ball mover that commanded a ton of defensive attention.. while playing in a movement focused and power-play generating scheme in/within the triangle.