RealGM

Used to think it was overwhelmingly likely, but my current belief is the steals are tough.

What do you think?

I find it possible, but unlikely.

Well if you put Hakeem back then I think he'd do it at least a few times and I think Russell is the closest thing to hm in term of quickness who could also block shots with the best of them. So I think Russell probably did do it a few times. He probably had 10+ blocks in something like 30% of the games he played(roughly 310 games) which is a huge amount for him to get the steals in. Wilt or Thurmond obviously could have done it as well.

Apparently Hakeem is the only player even close to having 10 of both in one game with 7 apiece, it is a tall order in any era clearly but given a great enough sample size even the most unlikely of things becomes certain. I would not be surprised if someone tracked a Bill Russell game where he at least came close

One extra fold…since 73-74 a total of 25 player-games have 10+ steals. Only two with over 10, exactly 11. Another 49 player-games at 9.

ceiling raiser wrote:One extra fold…since 73-74 a total of 25 player-games have 10+ steals. Only two with over 10, exactly 11. Another 49 player-games at 9.

Also worth noting that David Robinson for instance had game highs of 6 or more steals in 5 seasons despite only averaging 2 or more spg one time and while playing around 38mpg most seasons in a league where pace was in the 90's. Russell otoh was playing around 44mpg on teams with a pace in the 120's and 130's. So that's a lot more possessions which is of course why he and Wilt put up insane rebounding numbers. So basically what I'm saying is that if Russell could have gotten 6-7 steals in a game playing around 38mpg in a 95ish pace league in the 90's I think there's a pretty good chance he could get 10 in a league where he plays 44mpg on a team with a pace of 130. I also think if he was able to do that say 5 times there's a good chance he got 10 blocks in at least one of those games also.

henshao wrote:Apparently Hakeem is the only player even close to having 10 of both in one game with 7 apiece, it is a tall order in any era clearly but given a great enough sample size even the most unlikely of things becomes certain. I would not be surprised if someone tracked a Bill Russell game where he at least came close

Hakeem had 7 steals and 12 blocks in one game.

He also had 38 points, 17 rebounds and 6 assists... I think if you consider Russell to have a similar profile as a player, and he played with more possessions per game along with the majority of his energy being expended on defense and taking far fewer shots than Hakeem, I think 10/10 is absolutely possible.

Obviously unlikely, though the crazy pace of the early 60s mean that there's a slight chance. A lot of 8 or 9 steal games might become 10 steal games with the extra possessions.

ardee wrote:

henshao wrote:Apparently Hakeem is the only player even close to having 10 of both in one game with 7 apiece, it is a tall order in any era clearly but given a great enough sample size even the most unlikely of things becomes certain. I would not be surprised if someone tracked a Bill Russell game where he at least came close

Hakeem had 7 steals and 12 blocks in one game.

He also had 38 points, 17 rebounds and 6 assists... I think if you consider Russell to have a similar profile as a player, and he played with more possessions per game along with the majority of his energy being expended on defense and taking far fewer shots than Hakeem, I think 10/10 is absolutely possible.

God it hurts me sometimes to think of that poor man toiling for the Rockets with such little help, I'm so glad he ultimately got to the promised land

henshao wrote:

ardee wrote:

henshao wrote:Apparently Hakeem is the only player even close to having 10 of both in one game with 7 apiece, it is a tall order in any era clearly but given a great enough sample size even the most unlikely of things becomes certain. I would not be surprised if someone tracked a Bill Russell game where he at least came close

Hakeem had 7 steals and 12 blocks in one game.

He also had 38 points, 17 rebounds and 6 assists... I think if you consider Russell to have a similar profile as a player, and he played with more possessions per game along with the majority of his energy being expended on defense and taking far fewer shots than Hakeem, I think 10/10 is absolutely possible.

God it hurts me sometimes to think of that poor man toiling for the Rockets with such little help, I'm so glad he ultimately got to the promised land

It's interesting that Hakeem doesn't stick out much in the limited +/- and RAPM data we have from 80s despite playing with all those bums. It's usually the opposite in those scenarios.

VanWest82 wrote:It's interesting that Hakeem doesn't stick out much in the limited +/- and RAPM data we have from 80s despite playing with all those bums. It's usually the opposite in those scenarios.

My own opinion was that during the dark era of his career, the Rockets' offensive scheme was often designed basically in spite of Hakeem rather than built around him, but we have strayed onto a tangent

The official scorer for the Sixers said that Wilt had 24 blocks and 11 steals one game in a game in March 1968:

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-wilt-chamberlain-really-had-a-quintuple-double-nba-fans-stumped-by-lakers-and-sixers-legends-greatest-unofficial-statline-of-all-time/

henshao wrote:

ardee wrote:

henshao wrote:Apparently Hakeem is the only player even close to having 10 of both in one game with 7 apiece, it is a tall order in any era clearly but given a great enough sample size even the most unlikely of things becomes certain. I would not be surprised if someone tracked a Bill Russell game where he at least came close

Hakeem had 7 steals and 12 blocks in one game.

He also had 38 points, 17 rebounds and 6 assists... I think if you consider Russell to have a similar profile as a player, and he played with more possessions per game along with the majority of his energy being expended on defense and taking far fewer shots than Hakeem, I think 10/10 is absolutely possible.

God it hurts me sometimes to think of that poor man toiling for the Rockets with such little help, I'm so glad he ultimately got to the promised land

He won two titles that probably mean more than any titles won in history with a few exceptions, lock for top 10 all time. He is fine haha.

Yes, the standard deviation in those eras were so large that it was possible. Think about putting peak LeBron in an NCAA game, he might give you 50/10/10/10/10

dygaction wrote:Yes, the standard deviation in those eras were so large that it was possible.

How can you know that?

iggymcfrack wrote:The official scorer for the Sixers said that Wilt had 24 blocks and 11 steals one game in a game in March 1968:

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-wilt-chamberlain-really-had-a-quintuple-double-nba-fans-stumped-by-lakers-and-sixers-legends-greatest-unofficial-statline-of-all-time/

People in this thread are underestimating the difference in possessions being played not only due to pace but mpg that Wilt and Russell played back then. I did a little math and someone like Hakeem or Admiral played around 75 possessions most nights while Wilt and Russell were likely between 120-130 per game for a good portion of their careers. Also higher pace usually means guys are a bit more reckless with passes which likely means even more turnovers.

70sFan wrote:

dygaction wrote:Yes, the standard deviation in those eras were so large that it was possible.

How can you know that?

All the statistical evidences are screaming for that... You have some of the world-class talents like Wilt, Bill, Oscar putting up godly numbers in a just developed league that drew players from a much smaller pool.

Some of the more impressive ones (in more recent years):

- Draymond had 10 steals/5 blocks vs Memphis in 2017
- Amare had 4 steals/10 blocks vs Utah in 2004
- Kirilenko had 6 steals/7 blocks vs the Lakers in 2006

dygaction wrote:

70sFan wrote:

dygaction wrote:Yes, the standard deviation in those eras were so large that it was possible.

How can you know that?

All the statistical evidences are screaming for that... You have some of the world-class talents like Wilt, Bill, Oscar putting up godly numbers in a just developed league that drew players from a much smaller pool.

These godly numbers are less godly than what current superstars are putting right now...

70sFan wrote:

dygaction wrote:

70sFan wrote:How can you know that?

All the statistical evidences are screaming for that... You have some of the world-class talents like Wilt, Bill, Oscar putting up godly numbers in a just developed league that drew players from a much smaller pool.

These godly numbers are less godly than what current superstars are putting right now...

Clearly the league now must have just been developed and has a tiny pool. Everyone is dropping 50 points in their sleep! Point guards getting triple doubles? Hyper efficient scoring? This era is just a giant asterisk.