RealGM

I think he's definitely top 5 in 2013 (tbh, he shouldn't have been, but it was quite a weak year), 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2021, 2022 and most likely 2023 too.

The ones people have trouble with are 2018 and 2019.

Personally I think he definitely was in 2019, I have Kawhi, Harden, Giannis, Steph and Jokic in that order. Didn't have his best ever RS but he was still pretty good and went up a level in the Playoffs once Durant went down.

2018: I don't see it. LeBron, Harden and Davis are the easy top 3. For spots 4 and 5 I'd probably go Durant and Giannis. Steph that year missed 31 RS games as well as the first round and the remainder of his Playoffs weren't enough to put him over the significantly more durable guys.

So that would have him at 9 total top 5 years, with at least 5 being top 3.

Probably 2014-17, 2019 and 2021-22, so 7 seasons overall - with 2013 and 2018 being arguable as well.

70sFan wrote:Probably 2014-17, 2019 and 2021-22, so 7 seasons overall - with 2013 and 2018 being arguable as well.

2023?

SpreeS wrote:

70sFan wrote:Probably 2014-17, 2019 and 2021-22, so 7 seasons overall - with 2013 and 2018 being arguable as well.

2023?

Season isn't over yet.

ardee wrote:I think he's definitely top 5 in 2013 (tbh, he shouldn't have been, but it was quite a weak year), 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2021, 2022 and most likely 2023 too.

The ones people have trouble with are 2018 and 2019.

Personally I think he definitely was in 2019, I have Kawhi, Harden, Giannis, Steph and Jokic in that order. Didn't have his best ever RS but he was still pretty good and went up a level in the Playoffs once Durant went down.

2018: I don't see it. LeBron, Harden and Davis are the easy top 3. For spots 4 and 5 I'd probably go Durant and Giannis. Steph that year missed 31 RS games as well as the first round and the remainder of his Playoffs weren't enough to put him over the significantly more durable guys.

So that would have him at 9 total top 5 years, with at least 5 being top 3.

So, definitely a thread that fits into how I tend to look at seasons.

First thing I'll say is this: Whether or not Curry gets in your top 5 in 2018, I think it's important to context the year with the following in mind:

Curry was immediately before and after that season.
Curry's team won the championship that year.
The main reason that someone else on Curry's team got more attention than Curry is because Curry was fine with bringing someone else on to the team that needed that validation, because he cared more about his team's success than his own ability to get big numbers.

And let me add from stats I personally look at that most don't:

Every year I look at who had the highest on-court ORtg in the league. To do this you need a minutes cut off, and I use the threshold of playing more than half the team's minutes.

In '17-18, Kevin Durant wins out with 117.4 just barely over James Harden at 117.2.
What about Steph? 121.2. Way out in front, but only played 44.1% of his team's minutes.

Now, fine to use Steph's limited minutes against him, but aside from the fact it doesn't make us doubt whether Curry was actually a Top 5 player when he played, there's also this:

Despite the fact Curry missed enough time that the Warriors played more minutes without him than with him, Curry still led the league in total +/- when all was said in done in June.

That's of course also a stat I look at, and I'll tell you that this is the only time I've ever seen a circumstance where a guy doesn't qualify for the on-court ORtg crown because of minutes, but was so dominant by on-court Net that he still took the overall +/- crown.

There's also WOWY stats you can find that make clear that Curry's numbers looked great with or without Durant, but Durant's numbers took a noticeable hit without Curry.

So in the end, if he doesn't end up on your Top 5 that year, I don't think you're crazy, though he is in mine, but I think it's critical to understand that this was not a year where he "fell off" or "let his team down" in the middle of his prime. It was rather a year where various statistical measures show him leading his team to another title despite being plagued by injuries.

SpreeS wrote:

70sFan wrote:Probably 2014-17, 2019 and 2021-22, so 7 seasons overall - with 2013 and 2018 being arguable as well.

2023?

I would probably take Jokic, Embiid, Tatum, Butler, Giannis over him for this season. Not really high on Steph's regular season at all and one playoff round doesn't move the needle enough for me.

Subject to change, obviously.

I tend to to evaluate a guy by his ability in a vacuum and not see just he value he provided for his team. I am pretty forgiving of injuries too.

So 2013-2019, and 2021-2023.

Curry was NOT a top 5 player in 2013 or 2014

KobesScarf wrote:Curry was NOT a top 5 player in 2013 or 2014

You act like this is 100%

Curry finishes in the following in 2013 and 2014 RS

2013 BPM: 5th
2013 OBPM: 5th
2013 WS: 7th
2013 TS+: 4th
2013 FG+: 4th

2014 BPM: 5th
2014 OBPM: 4th
2014 WS: 4th
2014 TS+: 4th
2014 FG+: 5th


Curry finishes in the following in 2013 and 2014 PS

I could see arguments of keeping him off the Top 5 in either season but I wouldn't go all capitalizing NOT on the idea.

Colbinii wrote:

KobesScarf wrote:Curry was NOT a top 5 player in 2013 or 2014

You act like this is 100%

Curry finishes in the following in 2013 and 2014 RS

2013 BPM: 5th
2013 OBPM: 5th
2013 WS: 7th
2013 TS+: 4th
2013 FG+: 4th

2014 BPM: 5th
2014 OBPM: 4th
2014 WS: 4th
2014 TS+: 4th
2014 FG+: 5th


Curry finishes in the following in 2013 and 2014 PS

I could see arguments of keeping him off the Top 5 in either season but I wouldn't go all capitalizing NOT on the idea.

Good points and that last part is particularly well-said.

This is where I say a thing I've said a number of times before on this particular thing:

Newcomers who see us talking about Curry as a Top 5 player 2 years before his MVP season will naturally think we're using revisionist thinking because the mainstream at the time didn't understand how Curry was breaking out.

But on this board at that time we voted Curry Top 5 in both seasons.

In the end, I'm less concerned with whether people actually have him in their Top 5, and more concerned with the idea that he wasn't even close.

First, let's ground the conversation in something that should probably feel more significant to people now that it did for most then:

In '12-13, Curry broke the all-time season record for 3-pointers made with a pretty massive lead over anyone else. At the time, among some folks like us, there was a "Oh my god, Curry just went from being a guy who we thought might have to retire early due to injury issues to posting the greatest 3-point season of all time!" moment.

On top of that, there was a recognition among us that Mark Jackson's offensive scheme was providing Curry with remarkably little help. This was not Curry hitting a ton of open shots, this an offensive scheme which was progressive in the sense that Curry & Klay took 3's, but regressive in all other ways causing the degree of difficulty of the shots to be quite high. And we found it incredibly impressive, and openly spoke about what Curry could do with a more progressive scheme.

And of course this also means that folks like us were the ones talking about something like his '14-15 MVP performance being possible before it happened, which means I think it's really, really important for anyone critical to step back and reflect:

If you didn't see Curry's emergence as a superstar coming until his MVP season - which most did not - you shouldn't feel cocky when discussing those earlier seasons with those who did.

Is it possible that folks here were too high on Curry at the time and it's just blind luck that he ended up becoming what he became? In theory, sure. Sometimes you just get lucky. But when you look at what we were pointing at - broadly speaking, pace & space - and you see the way the things were pointing to have since taken over the league, there's a clear throughline.

2014-19, 2021-22, likely this year as well.

KobesScarf wrote:Curry was NOT a top 5 player in 2013 or 2014

This really highlights how far behind you are. Like, it's really obvious that you only think players are good if the media said so because anyone who was paying attention knew Curry was already that good back then. You probably think the Warriors didn't exist before 2015.


Try naming 5 players in each of those seasons who are "clearly" better than Curry. Good luck.

2015 - Now besides 2020

HeartBreakKid wrote:

KobesScarf wrote:Curry was NOT a top 5 player in 2013 or 2014

This really highlights how far behind you are. Like, it's really obvious that you only think players are good if the media said so because anyone who was paying attention knew Curry was already that good back then. You probably think the Warriors didn't exist before 2015.


Try naming 5 players in each of those seasons who are "clearly" better than Curry. Good luck.

Melo Blake KD Paul Lebron Harden Kobe(13)

KobesScarf wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:

KobesScarf wrote:Curry was NOT a top 5 player in 2013 or 2014

This really highlights how far behind you are. Like, it's really obvious that you only think players are good if the media said so because anyone who was paying attention knew Curry was already that good back then. You probably think the Warriors didn't exist before 2015.


Try naming 5 players in each of those seasons who are "clearly" better than Curry. Good luck.

Melo Blake KD Paul Lebron Harden Kobe(13)

That you have Melo on that list tells anyone paying attention all they need to hear, man.

Melo was never clearly better than Curry. You'd have a hell of a time justifying Blake, too. An exciting 18/8 player who passes well for a big wasn't better than the 23/4/7 guy who posted the first season in league history of 7+ 3PA/g and 45% 3P with 50+ GP. Incidentally, 2016 Curry is the only other player to do that.

This is just an odd way to troll, man.

tsherkin wrote:

KobesScarf wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:
This really highlights how far behind you are. Like, it's really obvious that you only think players are good if the media said so because anyone who was paying attention knew Curry was already that good back then. You probably think the Warriors didn't exist before 2015.


Try naming 5 players in each of those seasons who are "clearly" better than Curry. Good luck.

Melo Blake KD Paul Lebron Harden Kobe(13)

That you have Melo on that list tells anyone paying attention all they need to hear, man.

Melo was never clearly better than Curry. You'd have a hell of a time justifying Blake, too. An exciting 18/8 player who passes well for a big wasn't better than the 23/4/7 guy who posted the first season in league history of 7+ 3PA/g and 45% 3P with 50+ GP. Incidentally, 2016 Curry is the only other player to do that.

This is just an odd way to troll, man.

Blake has a case in 2014 I'd say but yeah definitely not in 2013.

For 2013 my top 5 would be: LeBron, Durant, Curry, CP3, Duncan.

For 2014: LeBron, Durant, CP3, Curry, Griffin.

I was curious where I voted for Curry in the RPOY project for 2013 and 2014. I put Curry at #4 in 2013 and #3 in 2014.

I think current me would still vote him there for those specific seasons. And that's despite finding Golden State to be irritating for the past seven years.

ardee wrote:

tsherkin wrote:

KobesScarf wrote:Melo Blake KD Paul Lebron Harden Kobe(13)

That you have Melo on that list tells anyone paying attention all they need to hear, man.

Melo was never clearly better than Curry. You'd have a hell of a time justifying Blake, too. An exciting 18/8 player who passes well for a big wasn't better than the 23/4/7 guy who posted the first season in league history of 7+ 3PA/g and 45% 3P with 50+ GP. Incidentally, 2016 Curry is the only other player to do that.

This is just an odd way to troll, man.

Blake has a case in 2014 I'd say but yeah definitely not in 2013.

For 2013 my top 5 would be: LeBron, Durant, Curry, CP3, Duncan.

For 2014: LeBron, Durant, CP3, Curry, Griffin.

I don’t know my exact top 5 but Griffin was so far from Paul on game substance and impact on ether end that some other names have to be able to fit in between them. There is certainly enough room.

KobesScarf wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:

KobesScarf wrote:Curry was NOT a top 5 player in 2013 or 2014

This really highlights how far behind you are. Like, it's really obvious that you only think players are good if the media said so because anyone who was paying attention knew Curry was already that good back then. You probably think the Warriors didn't exist before 2015.


Try naming 5 players in each of those seasons who are "clearly" better than Curry. Good luck.

Melo Blake KD Paul Lebron Harden Kobe(13)

Melo

ronnymac2 wrote:I was curious where I voted for Curry in the RPOY project for 2013 and 2014. I put Curry at #4 in 2013 and #3 in 2014.

I think current me would still vote him there for those specific seasons. And that's despite finding Golden State to be irritating for the past seven years.

I thought I was lower, at the time, on Curry as well but I believe I had him in that running as well.