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Interesting debate on First Things First

Brown is probably a bit more portable but Mitchell is probably better. I know people are down on Mitchell after a disappointing playoff run but he still was probably better in his situation than Brown has been in his.

Ill take Jaylen. Theyre both ideally top 20, 25 players who are 2nd options. Mitchell tho is useless w/o the ball i was shocked at how little chemistry he and Garland had in playoffs. Hes had great playoff series but also some absolutely horrific ones - 18 Rockets, 19 Rockets, 22 Mavs, 23 Knicks

He is too volatile for me and its a bad sign how poor a defender and defensive liability he still is 6 seasons in the league despite playing with Royce,Rudy and Mobley,Jarrett. I dont think you can chalk it up to effort anymore. Its bad Iq and hes just a dumb defender and prolly one of the worst guard defenders in the league. Jaylens defense might get overrated by some but hes still leagues ahead of Don and his ceiling lower on offense but hes far more consistent and can play offball

Both are yo-yo's on offense but I'll take Brown since I know I'll get solid defense out of him.

Mitchell: 28-4-4 on 6.3 BPM, +5.0 EPM
Brown: 27-7-4 on 1.3 BPM, +2.6 EPM

I don't see a discussion here. Mitchell is visibly a better offensive player and I don't think Brown's is near All-NBA D level to cover it up. The difference is Mitchell has never played on a real contending team, but the difference in production output is just too big.

GSP wrote:Ill take Jaylen. Theyre both ideally top 20, 25 players who are 2nd options. Mitchell tho is useless w/o the ball i was shocked at how little chemistry he and Garland had in playoffs. Hes had great playoff series but also some absolutely horrific ones - 18 Rockets, 19 Rockets, 22 Mavs, 23 Knicks

He is too volatile for me and its a bad sign how poor a defender and defensive liability he still is 6 seasons in the league despite playing with Royce,Rudy and Mobley,Jarrett. I dont think you can chalk it up to effort anymore. Its bad Iq and hes just a dumb defender and prolly one of the worst guard defenders in the league. Jaylens defense might get overrated by some but hes still leagues ahead of Don and his ceiling lower on offense but hes far more consistent and can play offball

How much of Donovan did you watch this season? While I wasn't very happy with how he played at that end in the playoffs, he did pretty well defensively throughout the season. I know the popular opinion is that Mobley and Allen carried Cleveland's defense but that's not the case. Both Donovan and Garland for that matter really stepped up defensively, and while they are too limited physically to make enough of an impact to be considered positive defenders, they definitely helped. Either way, I don't think he's by any means one of the worst guard defenders in the league.

TheLand13 wrote:

GSP wrote:Ill take Jaylen. Theyre both ideally top 20, 25 players who are 2nd options. Mitchell tho is useless w/o the ball i was shocked at how little chemistry he and Garland had in playoffs. Hes had great playoff series but also some absolutely horrific ones - 18 Rockets, 19 Rockets, 22 Mavs, 23 Knicks

He is too volatile for me and its a bad sign how poor a defender and defensive liability he still is 6 seasons in the league despite playing with Royce,Rudy and Mobley,Jarrett. I dont think you can chalk it up to effort anymore. Its bad Iq and hes just a dumb defender and prolly one of the worst guard defenders in the league. Jaylens defense might get overrated by some but hes still leagues ahead of Don and his ceiling lower on offense but hes far more consistent and can play offball

How much of Donovan did you watch this season? While I wasn't very happy with how he played at that end in the playoffs, he did pretty well defensively throughout the season. I know the popular opinion is that Mobley and Allen carried Cleveland's defense but that's not the case. Both Donovan and Garland for that matter really stepped up defensively, and while they are too limited physically to make enough of an impact to be considered positive defenders, they definitely helped. Either way, I don't think he's by any means one of the worst guard defenders in the league.

On the scale of 1-5, how would rate their defense separately, be honest.

Eh I'll just say I'd rather have Jaylen on my team 9/10 times over.

Jaylen Brown is solid man defender, but overall a bit too one dimensional as a basketball player. His ball handling/ball security is atrocious, in the '23 Playoffs he has 38 Turnovers with only 42 Assists. It's the same occurrence in the '23 Regular Season and '22 Playoffs.

Donovan Mitchell even with high volatility, is the comfortably better player, JB seems like a version of Tim Hardaway Jr. in the '21 Playoffs

I think it's quite clear Jaylen is a better two way player.

But that's not the sole measure of impact. I'd value the ability to run a team offense consistently through Donovan and take his deficiencies in other areas.


You simply can't run a consistent and effective nba offense through Jaylen as the primary initiator noting his ball handling and playmaking limitations. It something we consistently see as an execution limitatiom down the stretch of games with this Celtics team - saying this as a big fan of Jaylen.

TheLand13 wrote:

GSP wrote:Ill take Jaylen. Theyre both ideally top 20, 25 players who are 2nd options. Mitchell tho is useless w/o the ball i was shocked at how little chemistry he and Garland had in playoffs. Hes had great playoff series but also some absolutely horrific ones - 18 Rockets, 19 Rockets, 22 Mavs, 23 Knicks

He is too volatile for me and its a bad sign how poor a defender and defensive liability he still is 6 seasons in the league despite playing with Royce,Rudy and Mobley,Jarrett. I dont think you can chalk it up to effort anymore. Its bad Iq and hes just a dumb defender and prolly one of the worst guard defenders in the league. Jaylens defense might get overrated by some but hes still leagues ahead of Don and his ceiling lower on offense but hes far more consistent and can play offball

How much of Donovan did you watch this season? While I wasn't very happy with how he played at that end in the playoffs, he did pretty well defensively throughout the season. I know the popular opinion is that Mobley and Allen carried Cleveland's defense but that's not the case. Both Donovan and Garland for that matter really stepped up defensively, and while they are too limited physically to make enough of an impact to be considered positive defenders, they definitely helped. Either way, I don't think he's by any means one of the worst guard defenders in the league.

They're not positive defenders but they helped? Doesn't that make them positive defenders?

HeartBreakKid wrote:

TheLand13 wrote:

GSP wrote:Ill take Jaylen. Theyre both ideally top 20, 25 players who are 2nd options. Mitchell tho is useless w/o the ball i was shocked at how little chemistry he and Garland had in playoffs. Hes had great playoff series but also some absolutely horrific ones - 18 Rockets, 19 Rockets, 22 Mavs, 23 Knicks

He is too volatile for me and its a bad sign how poor a defender and defensive liability he still is 6 seasons in the league despite playing with Royce,Rudy and Mobley,Jarrett. I dont think you can chalk it up to effort anymore. Its bad Iq and hes just a dumb defender and prolly one of the worst guard defenders in the league. Jaylens defense might get overrated by some but hes still leagues ahead of Don and his ceiling lower on offense but hes far more consistent and can play offball

How much of Donovan did you watch this season? While I wasn't very happy with how he played at that end in the playoffs, he did pretty well defensively throughout the season. I know the popular opinion is that Mobley and Allen carried Cleveland's defense but that's not the case. Both Donovan and Garland for that matter really stepped up defensively, and while they are too limited physically to make enough of an impact to be considered positive defenders, they definitely helped. Either way, I don't think he's by any means one of the worst guard defenders in the league.

They're not positive defenders but they helped? Doesn't that make them positive defenders?

If you’re going from being a terrible defender to a below average one, you’re still helping in the grand scheme of things.

JimmyFromNz wrote:I think it's quite clear Jaylen is a better two way player.

But that's not the sole measure of impact. I'd value the ability to run a team offense consistently through Donovan and take his deficiencies in other areas.


You simply can't run a consistent and effective nba offense through Jaylen as the primary initiator noting his ball handling and playmaking limitations. It something we consistently see as an execution limitatiom down the stretch of games with this Celtics team - saying this as a big fan of Jaylen.

It sounds to me though like you want these players to have PG skills at the SG position?

I don't think it should necessarily be a SG's responsibility to run an offense unless that's what you prefer given the combo guard skills of a James Harden...