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Where would you rank peak Embiid on your all-time centers list? Would he make your top 10?

I'm interested in your thoughts before I share my opinion.

Not top 10.

IdolW0rm wrote:Not top 10.

What's your top 10?

As in peak season.

Chamberlain, Kareem, Russell, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Jokic all ahead of him and maybe Mourning's best as well.

migya wrote:As in peak season.

Chamberlain, Kareem, Russell, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Jokic all ahead of him and maybe Mourning's best as well.

So you have him close to the end of top 10?

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:As in peak season.

Chamberlain, Kareem, Russell, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Jokic all ahead of him and maybe Mourning's best as well.

So you have him close to the end of top 10?

I think Thurmond's best was really good but looks like Embiid's best may squeak in.

migya wrote:As in peak season.

Chamberlain, Kareem, Russell, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Jokic all ahead of him and maybe Mourning's best as well.

Bill Walton?

B_Creamy wrote:

migya wrote:As in peak season.

Chamberlain, Kareem, Russell, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Jokic all ahead of him and maybe Mourning's best as well.

Bill Walton?

Forgot him

He edges out Embiid.

Peak season...

If we're including the postseason, that's got to be 2021. Otherwise, we just watch him score a whole bunch in the regular season and then collapse come the playoffs. But in 2021, 28.5 ppg on 63.6% TS in the RS (only 51 GP, though), then 28.1 ppg on 63.1% TS in the playoffs over 11 games. You could make an argument for his 2022 and 2023 seasons, since he won scoring titles and played 68 and 66 games, but the 7-10 ppg drop-off coupled to the large drop in postseason efficiency takes the teeth out of those seasons for me. Kind of like D-Rob in 94.

migya has a good starting list, especially with Walton.

Then you have to start considering Mikan, whatever challenges that may bring. Then also Reed and Cowens. Do you consider Duncan a 5? Then how do you consider him against the repeat DPOY guys like Eaton, Mutombo and Big Ben, who were obviously inferior on O but considerably more available. I don't suggest that you take them ahead of Embiid so much as those are more the guys where he seems to fit based on his total profile as a player. But again, if this is single-season, 2021 looks pretty good on Embiid. Then again, he was EXCEEDINGLY hot (like 75%+ TS hot) against the Wizards and then dropped-off a lot against Atlanta that year and dropped 8 turnovers in Game 7, so...

Anyway, ramble ramble. Top 15 seems appropriate. Something like 12th or 13th?

Hmm....I kinda have to make out a list to see where I think he falls:

Shaq
Wilt
Kareem
Hakeem
Robinson
Jokic
Walton
Russell (probably)

After that, I feel he has a case. Not a guarantee top 10, but battling for the next few spots with Ewing, Moses, Howard, Mourning, Reed (Mikan I have too much skepticism about given era, though he probably makes my top 20 center peaks; Gilmore might be in the mix toward the back, too???).

So I would say definitely top 15, maybe top 10.

it's hard to fit a guy into the rankings when he's missed so much of every season (even peak season) in his career but burned so brightly at the times while actually on the court

henshao wrote:it's hard to fit a guy into the rankings when he's missed so much of every season (even peak season) in his career but burned so brightly at the times while actually on the court

I'm personally of the belief that availability should be baked right into the pie of one's evaluation.

I'd brought up a vague hypothetical thought-exercise in another thread recently; it goes something like this:

*Player A has "on-court quality/impact" that is 9.5 [scale of 1-10], playing 34 mpg, misses 16-20 games in the season (and misses one or two playoff games, too).
*Player B's "on-court quality/impact" is less---only 8.5---but he plays 40 mpg, and will miss <5 games in rs (and none in the playoffs).

Who's better? That is: who had the better season/who is it better to build around for that year?


Even though Player A's on-court quality is superior, I believe there is room to debate who was better for this season, simply for the consideration of availability.

For sure below these guys:

Wilt
Shaq
Kareem
Duncan
Russell
Hakeem
Jokic
Ewing
Drob
Moses
Walton
Dwight

Could get interesting from there, I don’t believe his peak is automatically above someone like Mourning, or Gilmore. Davis seems more of a power forward.

migya wrote:As in peak season.

Chamberlain, Kareem, Russell, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Jokic all ahead of him and maybe Mourning's best as well.

Mikan is ahead of him too, not sure of a couple those players Migya named though Embiid missing games is an issue (like peak Walton) and I have Embiid over Zo pretty clearly. I'd have Embiid in the next tier with the McAdoo MVP seasons, Walton's title year, top Dwight Howard, the Gilmore MVP (where Gilmore led Kentucky to a title), ahead of Zo, Neil Johnson, peak Mel Daniels. IF he has a dominant postseason with the kind of regular season he had this year, he moves ahead of a lot of the guys Migya named.

migya wrote:

70sFan wrote:

migya wrote:As in peak season.

Chamberlain, Kareem, Russell, Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Moses, Ewing, Jokic all ahead of him and maybe Mourning's best as well.

So you have him close to the end of top 10?

I think Thurmond's best was really good but looks like Embiid's best may squeak in.

Along with Walton (that you mentioned later), I think Mikan should be ahead as well. Then guys like Reed, Lanier, Gilmore, Mutombo, Gobert and Howard. Probably most of them below, but still worth considering.

Edit: also, Duncan of course.

trex_8063 wrote:Hmm....I kinda have to make out a list to see where I think he falls:

Shaq
Wilt
Kareem
Hakeem
Robinson
Jokic
Walton
Russell (probably)

After that, I feel he has a case. Not a guarantee top 10, but battling for the next few spots with Ewing, Moses, Howard, Mourning, Reed (Mikan I have too much skepticism about given era, though he probably makes my top 20 center peaks; Gilmore might be in the mix toward the back, too???).

So I would say definitely top 15, maybe top 10.

It depends on how you look at Duncan and Davis, because I would take both over him.

penbeast0 wrote:Mikan is ahead of him too, not sure of a couple those players Migya named though Embiid missing games is an issue (like peak Walton) and I have Embiid over Zo pretty clearly. I'd have Embiid in the next tier with the McAdoo MVP seasons, Walton's title year, top Dwight Howard, the Gilmore MVP (where Gilmore led Kentucky to a title), ahead of Zo, Neil Johnson, peak Mel Daniels. IF he has a dominant postseason with the kind of regular season he had this year, he moves ahead of a lot of the guys Migya named.

Hell, I forgot about McAdoo and Gilmore.

I don't know that I'd take Bob ahead of Embiid (though he's a great mention), but Gilmore, for sure.

This takes me back a bit to the peak Harden era when we were watching one of the most dominant and prolific scoring seasons ever but then watching opponents chip away at that pretty successfully in the playoffs. It's confusing to watch a season like Embiid had this year, acknowledge that we almost never see seasons like that, but then have that thinking evaporate a bit when the playoffs don't go well. It's hard to reconcile both truths into an all-time ranking for a player.

cupcakesnake wrote:This takes me back a bit to the peak Harden era when we were watching one of the most dominant and prolific scoring seasons ever but then watching opponents chip away at that pretty successfully in the playoffs. It's confusing to watch a season like Embiid had this year, acknowledge that we almost never see seasons like that, but then have that thinking evaporate a bit when the playoffs don't go well. It's hard to reconcile both truths into an all-time ranking for a player.

At least JoJo has a strong defensive impact in the postseason though, which I feel like has to be a pretty big differentiator.

Im Your Father wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:This takes me back a bit to the peak Harden era when we were watching one of the most dominant and prolific scoring seasons ever but then watching opponents chip away at that pretty successfully in the playoffs. It's confusing to watch a season like Embiid had this year, acknowledge that we almost never see seasons like that, but then have that thinking evaporate a bit when the playoffs don't go well. It's hard to reconcile both truths into an all-time ranking for a player.

At least JoJo has a strong defensive impact in the postseason though, which I feel like has to be a pretty big differentiator.

I'm not ranking him against Harden in this thread though, we're ranking him against other all-time centers, so his strong defensive impact is not the same level of differentiator.