Lakers Mount Rushmore

[durantbird]

You are given the task of building the LA Lakers Mount Rushmore. What 4 are you choosing? Who are you keeping out, out of Shaq-Kobe-Magic-Kareem-West-Mikan?

[Jaivl]

West - Kareem - Magic - Kobe

and a statue of Mikan at the entrance.

[One_and_Done]

I assume this means we're picking the 4 guys who made the most contributions as players to the Lakers, not the 4 best players? 2020 Lebron was a better player than West or Kobe for eg, but he hasn't been in LA long enough.

Assuming that is what you mean, factoring in the greatness of the players, then in order:
1) Magic
2) Kareem
3) Shaq
4) Kobe or West

[70sFan]

Mikan
West
Magic
Kobe

HM to Kareem

[rk2023]

Factoring in influence after playing / off the court that directly contributed to the franchise:

Mikan West Magic Kobe, with a Kareem statue at the entrance.

[OdomFan]

Kobe - Kareem - Magic - Shaq

[cupcakesnake]

Mikan, West, Magic, Kobe.

I think West/Kobe/Magic are the universal locks. I have a hard time imagining the case for leaving any of them off in favor of another player.

I think Mikan should be a lock too. Mikan is the OG. The George Washington on the Mount Rushmore. The franchises first star, winner of their first 5 titles. If you don't have Mikan on here, you either
a) Willfully ignore basketball before 1960 or don't know anything about it.
b) Don't count the Minneapolis years (and therefore also discredit 5 of the Lakers 16 championships).

Kareem is the other one here who is really deserving. I just don't see who he has a case over. He has a slight longevity advantage over Magic (yes just with his Laker career), but for most of their time together, Magic was the one driving the bus. I'm picking Magic to represent the 80s Lakers dynasty, and Kareem's 70s Lakers did not have anywhere near the same amount of success or historical importance.

I have Shaq 6th (ahead of Elgin Baylor or Wilt or Worthy... I think it's a drop off after Shaq), but unless you're all about prime, I don't see how you can put Shaq ahead of any of these 5 names.

[iggymcfrack]

Mikan, West, Magic, Kobe.

I think West/Kobe/Magic are the universal locks. I have a hard time imagining the case for leaving any of them off in favor of another player.

I think Mikan should be a lock too. Mikan is the OG. The George Washington on the Mount Rushmore. The franchises first star, winner of their first 5 titles. If you don't have Mikan on here, you either
a) Willfully ignore basketball before 1960 or don't know anything about it.
b) Don't count the Minneapolis years (and therefore also discredit 5 of the Lakers 16 championships).

Kareem is the other one here who is really deserving. I just don't see who he has a case over. He has a slight longevity advantage over Magic (yes just with his Laker career), but for most of their time together, Magic was the one driving the bus. I'm picking Magic to represent the 80s Lakers dynasty, and Kareem's 70s Lakers did not have anywhere near the same amount of success or historical importance.

I have Shaq 6th (ahead of Elgin Baylor or Wilt or Worthy... I think it's a drop off after Shaq), but unless you're all about prime, I don't see how you can put Shaq ahead of any of these 5 names.

Shaq played 636 games for the Lakers (RS + playoffs combined) compared to only 509 total for Mikan, and he was maybe even more dominant on a per game basis. If you dock Mikan even a tiny bit for the competition he played or playing his career in Minneapolis instead of LA, I think Shaq could easily pass him. Normally I’d default to taking the first big star for any Mount Rushmore (i.e. I’m taking Russell over Shaq on my NBA Mount Rushmore even though Shaq ranks much higher), but in this case I don’t know that playing in front of 5K fans on average in a game you can dominate with your height at 6’9” should really give you an edge over the best/most dominant player to ever suit up for the franchise. Give me West/Magic/Shaq/Kobe.

[cupcakesnake]

Mikan, West, Magic, Kobe.

I think West/Kobe/Magic are the universal locks. I have a hard time imagining the case for leaving any of them off in favor of another player.

I think Mikan should be a lock too. Mikan is the OG. The George Washington on the Mount Rushmore. The franchises first star, winner of their first 5 titles. If you don't have Mikan on here, you either
a) Willfully ignore basketball before 1960 or don't know anything about it.
b) Don't count the Minneapolis years (and therefore also discredit 5 of the Lakers 16 championships).

Kareem is the other one here who is really deserving. I just don't see who he has a case over. He has a slight longevity advantage over Magic (yes just with his Laker career), but for most of their time together, Magic was the one driving the bus. I'm picking Magic to represent the 80s Lakers dynasty, and Kareem's 70s Lakers did not have anywhere near the same amount of success or historical importance.

I have Shaq 6th (ahead of Elgin Baylor or Wilt or Worthy... I think it's a drop off after Shaq), but unless you're all about prime, I don't see how you can put Shaq ahead of any of these 5 names.

Shaq played 636 games for the Lakers (RS + playoffs combined) compared to only 509 total for Mikan, and he was maybe even more dominant on a per game basis. If you dock Mikan even a tiny bit for the competition he played or playing his career in Minneapolis instead of LA, I think Shaq could easily pass him. Normally I’d default to taking the first big star for any Mount Rushmore (i.e. I’m taking Russell over Shaq on my NBA Mount Rushmore even though Shaq ranks much higher), but in this case I don’t know that playing in front of 5K fans on average in a game you can dominate with your height at 6’9” should really give you an edge over the best/most dominant player to ever suit up for the franchise. Give me West/Magic/Shaq/Kobe.

I'm not arguing that Mikan is a better basketball player than Shaq.

I think a thing like a "Mount Rushmore" has to be about historical significance. Otherwise what are we really talking about. Even in normal basketball analysis, I'm always adjusting for era, because it's more interesting and it better helps us understand the history and the story of NBA basketball.

You're allowed to say you don't care at all about 50s basketball, but I'm not sure why we're doing this for a Mount Rushmore style argument. Am I leaving off George Washington in favor of Bill Clinton because foreign policy and military spending in Washington's era was a joke compared to Clinton's? What do we get out of that in terms of learning the story of the Lakers franchise?

Also what's your argument for Shaq over Kareem if you're indexing on total games played?

[Cavsfansince84]

Ya I don't get why so many fans seem to skewer so much towards recent players on things which are meant to honor the history of something. Each generation of players is built upon the foundation of the generation(s) which came before them. So having something like a Mt Rushmore that only goes back 20 some years is really a slap in the face to all the players who came before those guys imo. Especially for a franchise like the Lakers whose history actually goes back to the beginning of the league and has had so many guys who are even now considered atg's.

[Doctor MJ]

You are given the task of building the LA Lakers Mount Rushmore. What 4 are you choosing? Who are you keeping out, out of Shaq-Kobe-Magic-Kareem-West-Mikan?

MPLS/LA Lakers? Mikan - West - Magic - Kobe
LA Lakers? West - Kareem - Magic - Kobe

[trex_8063]

Kobe and Magic are obvious, having played their entire illustrious careers in Laker uniforms.

By the same token, West is perhaps a shoe-in, too (though I rank him a little behind the above two in an all-time sense).

For fourth, I think it's probably between Shaq and Kareem for me, no disrespect to Mikan [or Baylor]. Shaq played 8 seasons as a Laker, including basically ALL of his very best years; for me that trumps Mikan's tenure (ditto LeBron's 5 years, or Baylor's career).

And Kareem's got 14 years there......even though the last one is basically of minimal effectiveness or value (and the couple before that were past the point of All-Star level), it still amounts to substantial to an awful lot (perhaps even more cumulative value than Shaq's 8 years, now that I'm thinking about it; eesh, hard....)

Do those resume's have more value than West's whole career? Damn, this is hard. I'm gonna say no, though; West stays in. So I have to cut one of Shaq and Kareem. I guess I'm gonna cut Kareem, as much as that hurts. If it were his first 14 years, it easily beats Shaq's eight years as a Laker; or even if I looked at '75-'88 Kareem, that slight shift would be enough to put him over the top.


So that's my Rushmore: Magic, Kobe, West, Shaq. Super-close HM to Kareem (could see myself switching that, actually).

[oaktownwarriors87]

Kobe Kareem Magic West

I don't get the lack of love for Kareem


Only Kobe has played more games as a Laker
Only Kobe has played more minutes as a Laker
Only Kobe and West have scored more points as a Laker
Only Kobe and West have more WS as a Laker
Only Kobe and Magic have more VORP as a Laker

Kobe, Magic and Kareem are also the only players with 5 rings as Lakers

[eminence]

Kobe Kareem Magic West

I don't get the lack of love for Kareem


Only Kobe has played more games as a Laker
Only Kobe has played more minutes as a Laker
Only Kobe and West have scored more points as a Laker
Only Kobe and West have more WS as a Laker
Only Kobe and Magic have more VORP as a Laker

Kobe, Magic and Kareem are also the only players with 5 rings as Lakers

Only cause Mikan and Pollard have 6

[Colbinii]

Kobe Kareem Magic West

I don't get the lack of love for Kareem


Only Kobe has played more games as a Laker
Only Kobe has played more minutes as a Laker
Only Kobe and West have scored more points as a Laker
Only Kobe and West have more WS as a Laker
Only Kobe and Magic have more VORP as a Laker

[b]Kobe, Magic and Kareem are also the only players with 5 rings as Lakers[b]

5>6

[Matt15]

Kobe/Magic/West/Kareem

[eminence]

Mikan to me is the no-brainer, excluding him (other than if you're giving those titles to the Wolves) goes against basically everything a Mt. Rushmore is about. Then Magic/Kobe as the long tenured faces of the next most successful periods in Lakers history.

4th I think is up for debate between the main 3 mentioned here of West/KAJ/Shaq.

My first instinct was West, but I'd be open to hearing arguments for any of the 3. Baylor would be on a lot of other franchises Rushmore, but unfortunately he's not in the discussion here.

[iggymcfrack]

Mikan, West, Magic, Kobe.

I think West/Kobe/Magic are the universal locks. I have a hard time imagining the case for leaving any of them off in favor of another player.

I think Mikan should be a lock too. Mikan is the OG. The George Washington on the Mount Rushmore. The franchises first star, winner of their first 5 titles. If you don't have Mikan on here, you either
a) Willfully ignore basketball before 1960 or don't know anything about it.
b) Don't count the Minneapolis years (and therefore also discredit 5 of the Lakers 16 championships).

Kareem is the other one here who is really deserving. I just don't see who he has a case over. He has a slight longevity advantage over Magic (yes just with his Laker career), but for most of their time together, Magic was the one driving the bus. I'm picking Magic to represent the 80s Lakers dynasty, and Kareem's 70s Lakers did not have anywhere near the same amount of success or historical importance.

I have Shaq 6th (ahead of Elgin Baylor or Wilt or Worthy... I think it's a drop off after Shaq), but unless you're all about prime, I don't see how you can put Shaq ahead of any of these 5 names.

Shaq played 636 games for the Lakers (RS + playoffs combined) compared to only 509 total for Mikan, and he was maybe even more dominant on a per game basis. If you dock Mikan even a tiny bit for the competition he played or playing his career in Minneapolis instead of LA, I think Shaq could easily pass him. Normally I’d default to taking the first big star for any Mount Rushmore (i.e. I’m taking Russell over Shaq on my NBA Mount Rushmore even though Shaq ranks much higher), but in this case I don’t know that playing in front of 5K fans on average in a game you can dominate with your height at 6’9” should really give you an edge over the best/most dominant player to ever suit up for the franchise. Give me West/Magic/Shaq/Kobe.

I'm not arguing that Mikan is a better basketball player than Shaq.

I think a thing like a "Mount Rushmore" has to be about historical significance. Otherwise what are we really talking about. Even in normal basketball analysis, I'm always adjusting for era, because it's more interesting and it better helps us understand the history and the story of NBA basketball.

You're allowed to say you don't care at all about 50s basketball, but I'm not sure why we're doing this for a Mount Rushmore style argument. Am I leaving off George Washington in favor of Bill Clinton because foreign policy and military spending in Washington's era was a joke compared to Clinton's? What do we get out of that in terms of learning the story of the Lakers franchise?

Also what's your argument for Shaq over Kareem if you're indexing on total games played?

Shaq was the most dominant player in the history of the Lakers. His 2000-2002 run was maybe the best 3 seasons any player ever had in the history of the franchise. Kareem’s peak was in Milwaukee. I’m just saying that if the argument against Shaq is lack of longevity with the team, he still played more games than Mikan at a higher level of dominance.

If I tried to do it like I do my overall NBA Mount Rushmore (first truly great player -> next GOAT -> next GOAT -> next GOAT), I’d come up with Mikan/West/Kareem/Magic and leave both Shaq and Kobe off since Magic is still the greatest Laker of all-time. That doesn’t really feel right though since Mikan had the shortest Lakers career and the least meaning to the franchise since he played in Minneapolis before the league was popular and Kobe is maybe the most loved Laker in the history of the franchise.

It’s really an interesting debate since so many players have such strong arguments. As you said Mikan is the OG and was the NBA’s original GOAT playing his whole career in a Lakers uniform, West was the first great LA Laker and had easily the best Lakers’ career when he retired, Kareem has the best career of any Laker and spent the majority of his career with the franchise, Magic had the best career in a Lakers’ uniform, Shaq had the best peak, and Kobe is the most loved Laker with the most longevity with the team. Really all 6 have compelling cases.

[70sFan]

Shaq was the most dominant player in the history of the Lakers. His 2000-2002 run was maybe the best 3 seasons any player ever had in the history of the franchise.

That depends on your criteria and is very arguable. I get the love for 2000, but I fail to see how 2002 Shaq is far superior to 1977 Kareem, 1980 Kareem, 1949-50 Mikan or even the best West and Magic seasons.

Personally, I prefer Kareem best Lakers seasons even over 2000 Shaq, but that's a debate for another thread.

Kareem’s peak was in Milwaukee.

That's also arguable, a lot of people consider Kareem's peak to happen in 1977 and they have legitimate arguments.

I’m just saying that if the argument against Shaq is lack of longevity with the team, he still played more games than Mikan at a higher level of dominance.

Again, higher level of dominance is arguable.

[Cavsfansince84]

The Lakers and Celtics are really both franchises that need 2 mt Rushmores. It's almost disrespectful to leave some of those guys off. I mean Mikan when he retired was the goat and even now has an argument for most dominant 5 year run ever. Baylor was probably seen as top 5 ever as late as the mid 80's and was 1st team all nba something like 10 times. So as en vogue as the idea of mt Rushmores are for teams/leagues it doesn't always do things justice.