Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob

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Peak only?

Davis/Jokic
19
59%
Dirk/D-Rob
13
41%
 
Total votes: 32

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Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#1 » by Matt15 » Fri Jun 9, 2023 6:42 pm

Peak only, which duo would you rather have?
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#2 » by mdonnelly1989 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:22 am

Dirk and D Rob are more lethal scoring threat comfortably. Jokic passing closes the gap a bit, but then D-Rob defense re widens it.

Jokic and Dirk are basically similar caliber defenders. But DRob is clearly and most defa more impactful defender than AD.

Davis 93/100
Jokic 96/100

Dirk 95/100
DRob 95/100

Slight edge to Dirk and DRob
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#3 » by One_and_Done » Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:43 pm

Davis is a weak offensive fit with Jokic when he's not shooting 3s. Basically you're forced to play two 5s. D.Rob/Dirk seems the easy call.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#4 » by Colbinii » Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:49 pm

One_and_Done wrote:Davis is a weak offensive fit with Jokic when he's not shooting 3s. Basically you're forced to play two 5s. D.Rob/Dirk seems the easy call.


Do you think the same for Aaron Gordon?
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#5 » by One_and_Done » Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:54 pm

Colbinii wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Davis is a weak offensive fit with Jokic when he's not shooting 3s. Basically you're forced to play two 5s. D.Rob/Dirk seems the easy call.


Do you think the same for Aaron Gordon?


Gordon has been taking and and making his open 3s on Denver. Davis doesn't even take them anymore. That's why the caveat is 'when he's not hitting 3s', which historically Davis has not.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#6 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:55 pm

Would Dirk/DRob be paired in the early 00's or are both for right now? Generally speaking with peak duos I think its best to meet them halfway together in the theoretical sense.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#7 » by Colbinii » Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:57 pm

One_and_Done wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Davis is a weak offensive fit with Jokic when he's not shooting 3s. Basically you're forced to play two 5s. D.Rob/Dirk seems the easy call.


Do you think the same for Aaron Gordon?


Gordon has been taking and and making his open 3s on Denver. Davis doesn't even take them anymore. That's why the caveat is 'when he's not hitting 3s', which historically Davis has not.


2023 Gordon: .90 PPP on Spot Ups
2020 Davis: 1.01 PPP on Spot Ups

It's about peaks, and even Gordon is bad this year on spot-ups.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#8 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:03 am

Colbinii wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Do you think the same for Aaron Gordon?


Gordon has been taking and and making his open 3s on Denver. Davis doesn't even take them anymore. That's why the caveat is 'when he's not hitting 3s', which historically Davis has not.


2023 Gordon: .90 PPP on Spot Ups
2020 Davis: 1.01 PPP on Spot Ups

It's about peaks, and even Gordon is bad this year on spot-ups.


It’s incredibly important to have a good cutter if ur post up heavy
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#9 » by No-more-rings » Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:33 am

mdonnelly1989 wrote:Dirk and D Rob are more lethal scoring threat comfortably.

I don’t see that as a given at all, let alone “comfortably”, can you explain that?
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#10 » by Colbinii » Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:53 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
Gordon has been taking and and making his open 3s on Denver. Davis doesn't even take them anymore. That's why the caveat is 'when he's not hitting 3s', which historically Davis has not.


2023 Gordon: .90 PPP on Spot Ups
2020 Davis: 1.01 PPP on Spot Ups

It's about peaks, and even Gordon is bad this year on spot-ups.


It’s incredibly important to have a good cutter if ur post up heavy


Sure, but I was just responding to someone who brought up shooting when Davis is clearly a better shooter than AG.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#11 » by mdonnelly1989 » Sun Jun 11, 2023 5:09 am

No-more-rings wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:Dirk and D Rob are more lethal scoring threat comfortably.

I don’t see that as a given at all, let alone “comfortably”, can you explain that?


AD has never been known as anything close to a lethal scorer.

Dirk and DRob both averaged around 25+ for their careers. Plus they did it in an ERA where it was harder to score with the rules.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#12 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sun Jun 11, 2023 5:10 am

Colbinii wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
2023 Gordon: .90 PPP on Spot Ups
2020 Davis: 1.01 PPP on Spot Ups

It's about peaks, and even Gordon is bad this year on spot-ups.


It’s incredibly important to have a good cutter if ur post up heavy


Sure, but I was just responding to someone who brought up shooting when Davis is clearly a better shooter than AG.


Yeah I know just adding on lol
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#13 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sun Jun 11, 2023 5:11 am

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:Dirk and D Rob are more lethal scoring threat comfortably.

I don’t see that as a given at all, let alone “comfortably”, can you explain that?


AD has never been known as anything close to a lethal scorer.

Dirk and DRob both averaged around 25+ for their careers. Plus they did it in an ERA where it was harder to score with the rules.


2018 and 2020?

It’s peak lol
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#14 » by Medbrat » Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:54 am

Jokic is clearly the best player, but I take Drob over AD easily, ten out of ten times. Depends on the make-up of the team for me, but likely Jokic team 6 out of 10 times.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#15 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Jun 12, 2023 4:06 am

No-more-rings wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:Dirk and D Rob are more lethal scoring threat comfortably.

I don’t see that as a given at all, let alone “comfortably”, can you explain that?


Dirk over Davis on offense isn't a given?


Davis has a lot more of his offense created for him and most of his peak argument is really selective because it only focuses on his playoff run. Dirk and Robinson have more complete seasons on offense in less offensive friendly eras while creating more for themselves.

When you extend Davis' 2020 season to include the RS he isn't that special and if you include it to a multi year stretch he isn't even on the radar. Peak doesn't necessarily mean single season much less post season only. I think increasing their sample sizes and it's rather evident that Davis was just on fire.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#16 » by No-more-rings » Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:38 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:Dirk and D Rob are more lethal scoring threat comfortably.

I don’t see that as a given at all, let alone “comfortably”, can you explain that?


Dirk over Davis on offense isn't a given?


Davis has a lot more of his offense created for him and most of his peak argument is really selective because it only focuses on his playoff run. Dirk and Robinson have more complete seasons on offense in less offensive friendly eras while creating more for themselves.

When you extend Davis' 2020 season to include the RS he isn't that special and if you include it to a multi year stretch he isn't even on the radar. Peak doesn't necessarily mean single season much less post season only. I think increasing their sample sizes and it's rather evident that Davis was just on fire.

Well he said “more lethal scoring threats comfortably”. I don’t think Drob is all that close to Davis as a scorer when looking at peaks(let alone comfortably better), and it’s not just one post season he was a dangerous postseason scorer in all of 2015, 2018 and 2020. That seems like a pretty solid sample size.

Drob’s scoring was much more fragile in a postseason setting, and not something that you can excused away by saying “he created more of his shots”.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#17 » by 70sFan » Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:42 am

No-more-rings wrote:Drob’s scoring was much more fragile in a postseason setting, and not something that you can excused away by saying “he created more of his shots”.

Are you sure about that? Even in NO, Davis played with comfortably better perimeter creators and playmakers than Robinson did for most of his career (if not all?), let alone next to LeBron. Robinson certainly created more of his shots and more shots for others as well.

I understand the scepticism towards Robinson scoring, but I don't think he'd have so many of his problems in Davis role as a finisher.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#18 » by RCM88x » Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:08 pm

Dirk/D-Rob are probably slightly better players overall but Davis/Jokic just feel like they cover way more weaknesses and are more flexible as a dup, so I will go with the more modern pair.
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#19 » by No-more-rings » Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:29 pm

70sFan wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:Drob’s scoring was much more fragile in a postseason setting, and not something that you can excused away by saying “he created more of his shots”.

Are you sure about that? Even in NO, Davis played with comfortably better perimeter creators and playmakers than Robinson did for most of his career (if not all?), let alone next to LeBron. Robinson certainly created more of his shots and more shots for others as well.

I understand the scepticism towards Robinson scoring, but I don't think he'd have so many of his problems in Davis role as a finisher.

Davis is simply more skilled scoring wise and can hurt you in a lot more ways than Drob can. I don’t know why we’re arguing this. Davis doesn’t need shots created for him, and “creating for others” is irrelevant since the point of discussion was scoring only.

No one has even remotely adequately defended the original claim that “Dirk/Drob are comfortably more lethal scorers than Jokic/Davis”.

What is the argument for that confined to a peak window?
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Re: Peak Only: Davis/Jokic vs Dirk/D-Rob 

Post#20 » by 70sFan » Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:21 pm

No-more-rings wrote:Davis is simply more skilled scoring wise and can hurt you in a lot more ways than Drob can. I don’t know why we’re arguing this. Davis doesn’t need shots created for him, and “creating for others” is irrelevant since the point of discussion was scoring only.

What ways do you have in mind in particular? Davis wasn't a very strong isolation player himself, he's not a strong shooter and he's likely not a better finisher either.

No one has even remotely adequately defended the original claim that “Dirk/Drob are comfortably more lethal scorers than Jokic/Davis”.

I am not interested in ridiculous claims like this one to be honest, I am more interesting into your argument here. I would like to see why you think this way, I don't really think you can defend the original statement.

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