RealGM

Who was the better player?

Who next, 2012 Lebron?

henshao wrote:Who next, 2012 Lebron?

Currently a contentious question on the general board

henshao wrote:Who next, 2012 Lebron?

meh, comparably or less defensible players are compared all-the-time.

Jokic is a better passer and 3 point shooter, Hakeem does everything else better.

OdomFan wrote:Jokic is a better passer and 3 point shooter, Hakeem does everything else better.

Jokic is also a better rebounder and interior scorer.

OdomFan wrote:Jokic is a better passer and 3 point shooter, Hakeem does everything else better.

I don’t think Hakeem does anything better on offense.

The question can really be boiled down to how much better Jokic is on offense than Hakeem is on defense.

Peregrine01 wrote:

OdomFan wrote:Jokic is a better passer and 3 point shooter, Hakeem does everything else better.

I don’t think Hakeem does anything better on offense.

The question can really be boiled down to how much better Jokic is on offense than Hakeem is on defense.

You don’t think Dream is a better post player or better taking you off the dribble? I don’t think it’s close.

spree8 wrote:

Peregrine01 wrote:

OdomFan wrote:Jokic is a better passer and 3 point shooter, Hakeem does everything else better.

I don’t think Hakeem does anything better on offense.

The question can really be boiled down to how much better Jokic is on offense than Hakeem is on defense.

You don’t think Dream is a better post player or better taking you off the dribble? I don’t think it’s close.

He's absolutely not a better post player and I am not even sure he'd be more effective off the dribble.
I think there are a couple of tiers between Jokic and Akeem on offense, the question is how much the defensive part is balancing that out.

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:

spree8 wrote:

Peregrine01 wrote:
I don’t think Hakeem does anything better on offense.

The question can really be boiled down to how much better Jokic is on offense than Hakeem is on defense.

You don’t think Dream is a better post player or better taking you off the dribble? I don’t think it’s close.

He's absolutely not a better post player and I am not even sure he'd be more effective off the dribble.
I think there are a couple of tiers between Jokic and Akeem on offense, the question is how much the defensive part is balancing that out.

He absolutely is tho… nobody could stop his shake, and it was so versatile. He had much better handle & athleticism, and was capable of putting it on the floor and taking you from the perimeter to the rim with ease or hitting a fadeaway. Joker is great, but he’s not on Dream’s level in this regard.

spree8 wrote:

Peregrine01 wrote:

OdomFan wrote:Jokic is a better passer and 3 point shooter, Hakeem does everything else better.

I don’t think Hakeem does anything better on offense.

The question can really be boiled down to how much better Jokic is on offense than Hakeem is on defense.

You don’t think Dream is a better post player or better taking you off the dribble? I don’t think it’s close.

Dream had great footwork but he primarily fell back on his fadeaway in the post. Jokic has even better footwork and so many moves and counters to go to in the post it's ridiculous. His post-ups have ranked among the most efficient half-court play-types in the whole league for a few years running now while Dream was not an outlier efficient scorer even relative to his era.

Off the dribble, Dream is certainly quicker. But he didn't have the handle that Jokic has and the ability to completely body guys out of the way. Guys like AD and JJJ are a lot more mobile than Jokic is but he still gets to the rim at will against these guys cause his base is so strong and he can't be moved off his spot. So he carries defenders (even big guys) to the rim. He's kinda like a 7 foot Luka in this way.

The General Board is bleeding into the PC board. Man this site has gone to **** due to an abject lack of interest from its moderators.

This is so obviously Hakeem on pretty much every aspect besides passing that it absolutely blows my mind how insanely biased and clueless you have to be to think this comparison warrants discussion.

JVL wrote:The General Board is bleeding into the PC board. Man this site has gone to **** due to an abject lack of interest from its moderators.

This is so obviously Hakeem on pretty much every aspect besides passing that it absolutely blows my mind how insanely biased and clueless you have to be to think this comparison warrants discussion.

If you think comparing Jokic to Hakeem is so outlandish that it's evident of the board going to **** then that's really on you. I get it's hard to appreciate a great player at the moment and that we lionize past greats but Jokic is quite clearly an all-time great as it stands now.

Definitely Hakeem because at his peak he was a great scorer as well.

Defensively it’s just not close

1993Playoffs wrote:Definitely Hakeem because at his peak he was a great scorer as well.

Defensively it’s just not close

this sounds very similar to "Embiid is great at offense as well while ebing an elite defender"

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:

1993Playoffs wrote:Definitely Hakeem because at his peak he was a great scorer as well.

Defensively it’s just not close

this sounds very similar to "Embiid is great at offense as well while ebing an elite defender"

This sounds like we can't differentiate among elite defenders. Hakeem was much better than Embiid on that end.

Do you suggest that picking Hakeem is wrong?

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:

1993Playoffs wrote:Definitely Hakeem because at his peak he was a great scorer as well.

Defensively it’s just not close

this sounds very similar to "Embiid is great at offense as well while ebing an elite defender"

I disagree. Embiid is a good defender definitely not a ATG defender.


Hakeem is a top 3/5 in NBA history while Jokic is merely average at best. It’s a very large gap.

They both excel at things moreso the other did.

Jokic (efficiency and playmaking 3pt shooting)
Hakeem (shotblocking and versatility on the perimeter on defense).

Not that jokic is a bad defender...he was very effective these playoffs but some of the plays Hakeem made (the block on Strickland and potentially title saving block on Starks) would've been open uncontested shots with Jokic there.

94 Hakeem won the title that season with a roster roughly on par with what Jokic played with the past 2 seasons with in Denver. And imho the Phoenix and Utah teams they beat out West in 94 were slightly more talented rosters overall than themselves.

Jokic may have had pretty much the first 30 ppg triple double in nba playoff history. But I think Hakeem having the only 5x5 playoff run to a title is slightly more impressive in terms of versatility.

The gap between them offensively in the playoffs is smaller than it is defensively imho. Both are in my top 5 of Center title runs in NBA history.

94 wasn't even Hakeem's best year but what's scary is '23 might not be Jokic's either

70sFan wrote:

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:

1993Playoffs wrote:Definitely Hakeem because at his peak he was a great scorer as well.

Defensively it’s just not close

this sounds very similar to "Embiid is great at offense as well while ebing an elite defender"

This sounds like we can't differentiate among elite defenders. Hakeem was much better than Embiid on that end.

Do you suggest that picking Hakeem is wrong?

I suggest that the way this was presented is misleading because there's a massive difference between Jokic and Hakeem on offense.
It can go either and it's close, but "definitely" because Hakeem was a great scorer sounds off to me