RealGM

Where does Bradley Beal ranked among Wizards All time?
Make your list

I'd say 3rd after Unseld & Hayes.

I think Bellamy is an obvious guy to consider, but he didn't stay with the club as long and I don't think his impact matches his stats.

Shout out to Bobby Dandridge who I think I might draft ahead of anyone I associate with the Packers/Zephers/Bullets/Wizards, but who also didn't play there for that long.

Very few Wizards legends, so surprisingly high.

Who are the Wizards legends?

Face of the franchise, in order from most recent to oldest:

Beal
Wall
Arenas
Webber
maybe Bernard King
Ruland
Hayes
Unseld
Bellamy

In terms of longevity, Beal certainly ranks high. The two at the top of everyone's list should be Hayes and Unseld who led the team in its only real sustained relevant period, the franchise has been a hot mess for the last 40+ years since Unseld retired and Hayes went back to Houston. Others lasted a shorter time due to trade (Bellamy, Webber), injury (Ruland, Wall), or flame out (Arenas). My factors are (a) importance to the franchise, (b) longevity, (c) fan appeal. I avoided role players, even great ones (Dandridge, Chenier, etc.), and players who spent their main years elsewhere (Monroe, King, arguably Webber).

The main competitors for me wouldn't be Bellamy who put up big numbers in obscurity for the expansion version of the franchise but seemed to get worse over time. I would favor Chris Webber, Gil Arenas, and John Wall. All 3 were more dynamic and had more success than Beal, though less longevity. Webber had his best years in Sacramento so let's take him off the list. Of the others, I'd probably have Agent Zero first and Wall last with Beal in the middle. Part is team success (not much in any of their cases but more with the Arenas/Jameson/Butler core), part is how much fun they were to watch.

So my final rank for Mr. Wizard (nee Bullet) would be:
1. Unseld
2. Hayes
3. Arenas
4. Beal
5. Wall

Boy, it is slim pickings after Hayes and Unseld, huh?

First off, Webber gets zero consideration. He only played there his first 2 years in the league. He never even made all-NBA until he went to Sacramento. Arenas made all-NBA 3 times in Washington, but he only played a total of 357 games with the franchise and he had an all-time ignominious exit that made the team into a laughing stock. Beal and Wall had longer careers in Washington, but they only made one all-NBA team each and neither one of them had a season anywhere near as good as Arenas in '06. Gus Johnson made all-NBA 4 times with the Bullets, but he also was terrible in the playoffs with a career PER of 12.6 on .434 TS%. Bellamy never made all-NBA in his 4 seasons. King was clearly well past his peak by the time he came to Washington.

Honestly, I think 3rd place is Beal just by default. Which is really sad considering that he was probably never actually a top 15 player in the league. He just gets it by being decent for a long time.

iggymcfrack wrote:Boy, it is slim pickings after Hayes and Unseld, huh?

First off, Webber gets zero consideration. He only played there his first 2 years in the league. He never even made all-NBA until he went to Sacramento. Arenas made all-NBA 3 times in Washington, but he only played a total of 357 games with the franchise and he had an all-time ignominious exit that made the team into a laughing stock. Beal and Wall had longer careers in Washington, but they only made one all-NBA team each and neither one of them had a season anywhere near as good as Arenas in '06. Gus Johnson made all-NBA 4 times with the Bullets, but he also was terrible in the playoffs with a career PER of 12.6 on .434 TS%. Bellamy never made all-NBA in his 4 seasons. King was clearly well past his peak by the time he came to Washington.

Honestly, I think 3rd place is Beal just by default. Which is really sad considering that he was probably never actually a top 15 player in the league. He just gets it by being decent for a long time.

Actually, Webber played his rookie year in Golden State and then went to Washington for 4 years, one of which he was injured. Still your point is accurate that he's more in the Bernard King/Earl Monroe/Moses Malone category.

In terms of guys who weren't the face of the franchise, you have Gus Johnson, Jack Marin, Phil Chenier, Bobby Dandridge, Jeff Malone, Juwan Howard, Antawn Jameson, Caron Butler, etc. of which Gus was indeed probably the best but always seemed in the shadow of Bellamy, Monroe, or Unseld.

If we rank among goodness I wouldn't put Beal in my top 5.

But I suppose if we talk about generic career value then he's top 3? Hard to say, he played a lot of meaningless seasons.

In terms of being iconic...also hard to say. He's been therefore ever so that has to say something, but Washington has been so.....not worth talking about. The brief periods of Arenas and Wall they were bigger stars which I guess counts for something (he was there for Wall's run to be fair). Also a lot of age bias for this type of thing, but I'd say holistically he's not a top 5 icon for the Wizards.

TroubleS0me wrote:Where does Bradley Beal ranked among Wizards All time?
Make your list

Doctor MJ wrote:I'd say 3rd after Unseld & Hayes.

I think Bellamy is an obvious guy to consider, but he didn't stay with the club as long and I don't think his impact matches his stats.

Shout out to Bobby Dandridge who I think I might draft ahead of anyone I associate with the Packers/Zephers/Bullets/Wizards, but who also didn't play there for that long.

One_and_Done wrote:Very few Wizards legends, so surprisingly high.

penbeast0 wrote:Who are the Wizards legends?

Face of the franchise, in order from most recent to oldest:

Beal
Wall
Arenas
Webber
maybe Bernard King
Ruland
Hayes
Unseld
Bellamy

In terms of longevity, Beal certainly ranks high. The two at the top of everyone's list should be Hayes and Unseld who led the team in its only real sustained relevant period, the franchise has been a hot mess for the last 40+ years since Unseld retired and Hayes went back to Houston. Others lasted a shorter time due to trade (Bellamy, Webber), injury (Ruland, Wall), or flame out (Arenas). My factors are (a) importance to the franchise, (b) longevity, (c) fan appeal. I avoided role players, even great ones (Dandridge, Chenier, etc.), and players who spent their main years elsewhere (Monroe, King, arguably Webber).

The main competitors for me wouldn't be Bellamy who put up big numbers in obscurity for the expansion version of the franchise but seemed to get worse over time. I would favor Chris Webber, Gil Arenas, and John Wall. All 3 were more dynamic and had more success than Beal, though less longevity. Webber had his best years in Sacramento so let's take him off the list. Of the others, I'd probably have Agent Zero first and Wall last with Beal in the middle. Part is team success (not much in any of their cases but more with the Arenas/Jameson/Butler core), part is how much fun they were to watch.

So my final rank for Mr. Wizard (nee Bullet) would be:
1. Unseld
2. Hayes
3. Arenas
4. Beal
5. Wall

iggymcfrack wrote:Boy, it is slim pickings after Hayes and Unseld, huh?

First off, Webber gets zero consideration. He only played there his first 2 years in the league. He never even made all-NBA until he went to Sacramento. Arenas made all-NBA 3 times in Washington, but he only played a total of 357 games with the franchise and he had an all-time ignominious exit that made the team into a laughing stock. Beal and Wall had longer careers in Washington, but they only made one all-NBA team each and neither one of them had a season anywhere near as good as Arenas in '06. Gus Johnson made all-NBA 4 times with the Bullets, but he also was terrible in the playoffs with a career PER of 12.6 on .434 TS%. Bellamy never made all-NBA in his 4 seasons. King was clearly well past his peak by the time he came to Washington.

Honestly, I think 3rd place is Beal just by default. Which is really sad considering that he was probably never actually a top 15 player in the league. He just gets it by being decent for a long time.

HeartBreakKid wrote:If we rank among goodness I wouldn't put Beal in my top 5.

But I suppose if we talk about generic career value then he's top 3? Hard to say, he played a lot of meaningless seasons.

In terms of being iconic...also hard to say. He's been therefore ever so that has to say something, but Washington has been so.....not worth talking about. The brief periods of Arenas and Wall they were bigger stars which I guess counts for something (he was there for Wall's run to be fair). Also a lot of age bias for this type of thing, but I'd say holistically he's not a top 5 icon for the Wizards.

Many of the same sentiments about the underwhelming nature of Bullets/Wizards history were expressed in Odinn21’s franchise peaks project.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2095673

Project main thread: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2074967

homecourtloss wrote:

TroubleS0me wrote:Where does Bradley Beal ranked among Wizards All time?
Make your list

Doctor MJ wrote:I'd say 3rd after Unseld & Hayes.

I think Bellamy is an obvious guy to consider, but he didn't stay with the club as long and I don't think his impact matches his stats.

Shout out to Bobby Dandridge who I think I might draft ahead of anyone I associate with the Packers/Zephers/Bullets/Wizards, but who also didn't play there for that long.

One_and_Done wrote:Very few Wizards legends, so surprisingly high.

penbeast0 wrote:Who are the Wizards legends?

Face of the franchise, in order from most recent to oldest:

Beal
Wall
Arenas
Webber
maybe Bernard King
Ruland
Hayes
Unseld
Bellamy

In terms of longevity, Beal certainly ranks high. The two at the top of everyone's list should be Hayes and Unseld who led the team in its only real sustained relevant period, the franchise has been a hot mess for the last 40+ years since Unseld retired and Hayes went back to Houston. Others lasted a shorter time due to trade (Bellamy, Webber), injury (Ruland, Wall), or flame out (Arenas). My factors are (a) importance to the franchise, (b) longevity, (c) fan appeal. I avoided role players, even great ones (Dandridge, Chenier, etc.), and players who spent their main years elsewhere (Monroe, King, arguably Webber).

The main competitors for me wouldn't be Bellamy who put up big numbers in obscurity for the expansion version of the franchise but seemed to get worse over time. I would favor Chris Webber, Gil Arenas, and John Wall. All 3 were more dynamic and had more success than Beal, though less longevity. Webber had his best years in Sacramento so let's take him off the list. Of the others, I'd probably have Agent Zero first and Wall last with Beal in the middle. Part is team success (not much in any of their cases but more with the Arenas/Jameson/Butler core), part is how much fun they were to watch.

So my final rank for Mr. Wizard (nee Bullet) would be:
1. Unseld
2. Hayes
3. Arenas
4. Beal
5. Wall

iggymcfrack wrote:Boy, it is slim pickings after Hayes and Unseld, huh?

First off, Webber gets zero consideration. He only played there his first 2 years in the league. He never even made all-NBA until he went to Sacramento. Arenas made all-NBA 3 times in Washington, but he only played a total of 357 games with the franchise and he had an all-time ignominious exit that made the team into a laughing stock. Beal and Wall had longer careers in Washington, but they only made one all-NBA team each and neither one of them had a season anywhere near as good as Arenas in '06. Gus Johnson made all-NBA 4 times with the Bullets, but he also was terrible in the playoffs with a career PER of 12.6 on .434 TS%. Bellamy never made all-NBA in his 4 seasons. King was clearly well past his peak by the time he came to Washington.

Honestly, I think 3rd place is Beal just by default. Which is really sad considering that he was probably never actually a top 15 player in the league. He just gets it by being decent for a long time.

HeartBreakKid wrote:If we rank among goodness I wouldn't put Beal in my top 5.

But I suppose if we talk about generic career value then he's top 3? Hard to say, he played a lot of meaningless seasons.

In terms of being iconic...also hard to say. He's been therefore ever so that has to say something, but Washington has been so.....not worth talking about. The brief periods of Arenas and Wall they were bigger stars which I guess counts for something (he was there for Wall's run to be fair). Also a lot of age bias for this type of thing, but I'd say holistically he's not a top 5 icon for the Wizards.

Many of the same sentiments about the underwhelming nature of Bullets/Wizards history were expressed in Odinn21’s franchise peaks project.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2095673

Project main thread: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2074967

Ranked 3-5 all had the same amount of points