Dirk vs Jokic peak

Mikeball · Post #1 » by **Mikeball** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:58 pm

Who was better at their peak?

Era for Era

No time machine arguements.

70sFan · Post #2 » by **70sFan** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:17 pm

Jokic is basically a comparable scorer, while being significantly better passer and playmaker and comparable defender. It's Jokic quite clearly to me.

70sFan · Post #3 » by **70sFan** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:17 pm

Jokic is basically a comparable scorer, while being significantly better passer and playmaker and comparable defender. It's Jokic quite clearly to me.

HeartBreakKid · Post #4 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:20 pm

I think comparing them as scorers would be a fun argument.

Who's better overall? 70sfan broke it down pretty simply.

Post #5 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:45 pm

70sFan wrote:Jokic is basically a comparable scorer, while being significantly better passer and playmaker and comparable defender. It's Jokic quite clearly to me.

Mmmm.

Let's say we look at 05 and 06 Dirk, since those are his highest-scoring seasons. 26.3 ppg, 58.4% TS, 109 and 110 TS+ (+4.9% and +5.3% rTS). Super low turnovers. Not a remarkable playmaker, but he also wasn't sticky-handed and did move the ball appropriately, and used enough different sets and possession types that he certainly wasn't causing issues. And again, scoring, not playmaking, since we all know Jokic is a dramatically superior playmaker.

Jokic is coming off 26.4 and 27.1 ppg, scored 24.5 ppg this season and in those seasons posted 64.7%, 66.1% and a league-best 70.1% TS. That's 113, 117 and 121 TS+, or +7.5%, +9.5% and +12.0% rTS.

There's a pretty large difference in his impact as a scoring threat with that efficiency gulf (both absolute and relative efficiency). And he's also demonstrated his ability to score in comparable volume, still posting efficiency higher than anything Dirk ever really approached. I think that represents a sizeable difference between the two as scorers.

Dirk, of course, was a very good playoff scorer. Which probably isn't doing justice to the 8 postseasons in which he scored 26.6+ ppg, peaking at 28.4 (over 8 games), leading the postseason with 26.6 in 03-04 and generally being a menace. 02-12, 26.2 ppg over 118 games on 58.4% TS. 09-11, 37 games, 62.1% TS, 27.3 ppg.

Joker these past three postseasons has posted 30.1 ppg (lowest at 29.8 ppg) over 35 games, posting 62.1% TS.

Some food for thought, I guess. Certainly nothing definitive. Your main point is obviously my thought as well, this is obviously Jokic. I guess I just wanted to take a trip down memory lane about Dirk, who was a monster scorer in the playoffs. Jokic is scoring more, though, at comparable efficiency in the playoffs, and absolutely obliterating people in the regular season. And his passing is unearthly.

rk2023 · Post #6 » by **rk2023** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:36 pm

Jump-shooting is the only advantage I would tangibly give Dirk over Jokic here. No knack at him as Dirk is a tremendous player in his own right, but it’s very clearly Jokic in this comparison.

What I do think is a fun-debate (relative to era) is deciding who is the better floor spacer between the two of them. I think with Jokic’s “pick your poison”, ultra decisive attack from the top of the perimeter - there is a very valid case for him as the GOAT spacing big.

Post #7 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:17 am

Love Dirk but he's about having a super consistent and extended prime. He can't compete in a single season with what Jokic has done the past couple years.

I do take issue that Dirk doesn't have some areas where is better but I understand some still see him as just a shooter. But it doesn't really matter. Jokic is just a better player.

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