Who is the Shohei Ohtani of the NBA?

[Matt15]

Past or present who would you say is the Shoei Ohtani of the NBA?

[Samurai]

I don't think there is a true comp because baseball and basketball are very different. EVERYONE who plays basketball has to play both offense and defense; that's just the way the game is designed. Obviously some have been better two-way players than others but every basketball player is in that pool. Very few position players in baseball also learn how to pitch at a high level - extremely few at the MLB level. It would sorta be like a Barry Bonds that also has the ability to pitch like Randy Johnson; someone who could hit like Bonds just wouldn't have the ability to pitch at the MLB level - let alone as well as the Big Unit. So the pool of players to even consider is miniscule in baseball compared to basketball.

[Dr Positivity]

Jokic

[rk2023]

From a standpoint of "checking all the boxes for one's team, and doing so effectively", he's on a prime LBJ, Kareem, Jordan wavelength at the moment.

[LukaTheGOAT]

I don't know much about baseball, but I was told Peak Barry Bonds has an argument still because his hitting was just that outlier. It's possible that the impact of both of them could be more outlier than anything we have seen in basketball/football (that I know more about). However, it does seem as if maybe he is intention for one of the GOAT peaks and might not be the undisputed #1 overall peak. So I guess think of the GOAT peaks in basketball and there you go.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think the only equivalent(in terms games where Ohtani both hits and pitches) is mid 60's Wilt, mid 70's Kareem and 93-94 Hakeem. That's if we want to conflate pitching with defense which you can in the sense that the overall purpose of defense in baseball is to create outs and pitching is the single biggest thing when a team is on defense which does that when it's done well. Much more so than a centerfielder or shortstop can. Ohtani isn't really all time level at either but he can do both at a very high level.

[1993Playoffs]

Early 90s MJ even his offense and defense peaked

[Statlanta]

New Orleans Anthony Davis.

2 way impact on an ok team

[jalengreen]

There is no basketball equivalent.

Hitting in baseball is very very difficult and people who can do it can generally not pitch. Pitching in baseball is also very very difficult and people who can do it can generally not hit. It is not the same as basketball where every player has the responsibility to play both sides (offense / defense) and is trained that way.

[penbeast0]

I don't think there is a true comp because baseball and basketball are very different. EVERYONE who plays basketball has to play both offense and defense; that's just the way the game is designed. Obviously some have been better two-way players than others but every basketball player is in that pool. Very few position players in baseball also learn how to pitch at a high level - extremely few at the MLB level. It would sorta be like a Barry Bonds that also has the ability to pitch like Randy Johnson; someone who could hit like Bonds just wouldn't have the ability to pitch at the MLB level - let alone as well as the Big Unit. So the pool of players to even consider is miniscule in baseball compared to basketball.

Babe Ruth

[JustBuzzin]

Jokic easily!

Center who has legit pg skills and can score and facilitate a offense.

The past is probably Magic Johnson dude was starting center in the NBA Finals unheard of from a pg.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Past or present who would you say is the Shoei Ohtani of the NBA?

Wemby shattering his ceiling and being GOAT tier in both ends would be the Ohtani equivalent, in the sense being a top 10 player at batting and pitching is way more impressive than being the best player on both ends in basketball

[CumberlandPosey]

russell of course as player coach.playing and coaching for a championship.unreal like pitching and hitting at major league level.

[Cavsfansince84]

Past or present who would you say is the Shoei Ohtani of the NBA?

Wemby shattering his ceiling and being GOAT tier in both ends would be the Ohtani equivalent, in the sense being a top 10 player at batting and pitching is way more impressive than being the best player on both ends in basketball

I think that's going overboard. Ohtani isn't top 10 all time in either, I'm guessing you mean in the current league. Part of why players barely ever did both in mlb is managers and front office just didn't think it was worth doing. They wanted guys who could do both at a high level in college to focus on one position in the minors/majors. Ruth did it of course but transitioned from pitching to batting. So there have been guys who could have done both at pretty high level. Being goat at both ends in the nba otoh is like a never before seen thing. The closest would be Wilt when he retired in 1974.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Past or present who would you say is the Shoei Ohtani of the NBA?

Wemby shattering his ceiling and being GOAT tier in both ends would be the Ohtani equivalent, in the sense being a top 10 player at batting and pitching is way more impressive than being the best player on both ends in basketball

I think that's going overboard. Ohtani isn't top 10 all time in either, I'm guessing you mean in the current league. Part of why players barely ever did both in mlb is managers and front office just didn't think it was worth doing. They wanted guys who could do both at a high level in college to focus on one position in the minors/majors. Ruth did it of course but transitioned from pitching to batting. So there have been guys who could have done both at pretty high level. Being goat at both ends in the nba otoh is like a never before seen thing. The closest would be Wilt when he retired in 1974.

Yeah ohtani is top 10 in the current league in both regards, but this would be the equivalent of no one could play defense and offense at the same time lol. One player did it in the early 1900s, that’s about it

[Cavsfansince84]

Yeah ohtani is top 10 in the current league in both regards, but this would be the equivalent of no one could play defense and offense at the same time lol. One player did it in the early 1900s, that’s about it

Other players have done both at a mlb level, just not at the same time which goes back to what I said about teams just not wanting guys to do it. Dave Winfield likely could have been top 10 at both. He was a top 10 hitter and was a great pitcher in college. I mean its a stretch to even compare it to basketball. It'd be more like a guy playing both off and def at a high level in today's nfl.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yeah ohtani is top 10 in the current league in both regards, but this would be the equivalent of no one could play defense and offense at the same time lol. One player did it in the early 1900s, that’s about it

Other players have done both at a mlb level, just not at the same time which goes back to what I said about teams just not wanting guys to do it. Dave Winfield likely could have been top 10 at both. He was a top 10 hitter and was a great pitcher in college. I mean its a stretch to even compare it to basketball. It'd be more like a guy playing both off and def at a high level in today's nfl.

Didnt that dude get drafted by every american big league lol, I think being good at both was more common early on in the 1920s or something but in recent years pitchers who hit dont hit well at all, ohtani is a modern day abberation

Agree with what you said about the NFL

[Cavsfansince84]

Didnt that dude get drafted by every american big league lol, I think being good at both was more common early on in the 1920s or something but in recent years pitchers who hit dont hit well at all, ohtani is a modern day abberation

Agree with what you said about the NFL

I think pitchers hitting levels have been about the same for the last 50 years or so. As in most would hit around .150-.200 then there'd always be a few who would hit like .250 or even .300. Rick Ankiel was a pretty good pitcher for a while then he got like the pitching yips and then became a pretty solid outfielder afterwards as I recall. Just not both at the same time though he was a solid hitter in the days he would pitch.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Didnt that dude get drafted by every american big league lol, I think being good at both was more common early on in the 1920s or something but in recent years pitchers who hit dont hit well at all, ohtani is a modern day abberation

Agree with what you said about the NFL

I think pitchers hitting levels have been about the same for the last 50 years or so. As in most would hit around .150-.200 then there'd always be a few who would hit like .250 or even .300. Rick Ankiel was a pretty good pitcher for a while then he got like the pitching yips and then became a pretty solid outfielder afterwards as I recall. Just not both at the same time though he was a solid hitter in the days he would pitch.

The way Ohtani is getting his impact is absurd, but I wouldn't say his value is something that we have never seen before. The season isn't over yet, but if you look at 02 Bonds, he had a 12.7 WAR. Assuming Ohtani doubles his production (about half the season left), he would be at 12.4.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/war?season=2023

That is a very rough measurement though.

[Optms]

Ohtani is above anyone in the NBA. In order for anyone to be close, we need an MVP player who is also a DPOY candidate every year, and play all 5 positions. And even then, they are no Ohtani.