2002 Celtics + prime Bill Russell

[rand]

If prime Bill Russell was dropped onto the 2002 Celtics, would they have beaten the Lakers for the title?

Assume that Russell takes Tony Battie's spot on the team and gets a full offseason to acclimate to the modern game, plus will have gone through the regular season and playoffs before facing LA.

Kenny Anderson / Tony Delk
Paul Pierce / Erick Strickland
Eric Williams / Rodney Rogers
Antoine Walker / Walter McCarty
Bill Russell / Mark Blount

[70sFan]

They'd dominate the East, but the finals would be interesting. I suppose it would depend on whether Russell's activity and motor would tire Shaq out. It would be also interesting to see how Pierce would fare.

I think it would be a close series for sure.

[One_and_Done]

So basically the 2002 Celtics get traded 2002 Ben Wallace for nothing. Not going to be enough.

[70sFan]

So basically the 2002 Celtics get traded 2002 Ben Wallace for nothing. Not going to be enough.

Except significantly better on both sides of the floor. You may as well equate Steph Curry to Damian Lillard.

[penbeast0]

If they all buy into the team offense and defense (I'm looking right at Antoine Walker when I say this, but Pierce wasn't nearly as mature as he became either), this could be a title winner. If anyone could do it, Russell could, but Toine is one of the lowest ratio of production to talent in NBA history and it was all in his 5 cent head.

[ronnymac2]

Russell and Walker would form the greatest front court in NBA history. Russell constantly denying the opposition two points on one end while Walker scores three or four on the other end. Easy title.

[tsherkin]

Hmm. Well, they certainly make the Finals.

I wonder how well Russ would do on O. The game hadn't advanced to the wild spacing and PnR stuff we see now, it was still relatively older-school, so he would have had less issue adapting. His offensive rebounding would be an IMMEDIATE boon (Boston was the 2nd-worst offensive rebounding team in the league in 2002), so that'd help. And the defensive and rebounding upgrade would be large.

The trouble with Boston versus LA is that the Celtics weren't a good scoring team and that the Lakers would be coming to smash them with good spacing and two violently-effective scoring monsters. Russ could do only so much. I don't think they win, but I do think it's a 6-game series.

If you replaced Antoine Walker, who was a gargantuan dumpster fire, with a competent scorer, then we'd have a different conversation.

[MyUniBroDavis]

They'd dominate the East, but the finals would be interesting. I suppose it would depend on whether Russell's activity and motor would tire Shaq out. It would be also interesting to see how Pierce would fare.

I think it would be a close series for sure.

How heavy was Russell again? I’m confused at the listed weights

[tsherkin]

They'd dominate the East, but the finals would be interesting. I suppose it would depend on whether Russell's activity and motor would tire Shaq out. It would be also interesting to see how Pierce would fare.

I think it would be a close series for sure.

How heavy was Russell again? I’m confused at the listed weights

Pretty sure he played most of his career in the 240-ish range, if memory serves. They listed college weights for a very long time, which of course aren't accurate at all.

[70sFan]

They'd dominate the East, but the finals would be interesting. I suppose it would depend on whether Russell's activity and motor would tire Shaq out. It would be also interesting to see how Pierce would fare.

I think it would be a close series for sure.

How heavy was Russell again? I’m confused at the listed weights

Most reports from his prime seasons show him to be in 225-235 lbs range and he peaked around 240 lbs. He was a bit lighter than Hakeem when Shaq met him in the finals.

[MyUniBroDavis]

They'd dominate the East, but the finals would be interesting. I suppose it would depend on whether Russell's activity and motor would tire Shaq out. It would be also interesting to see how Pierce would fare.

I think it would be a close series for sure.

How heavy was Russell again? I’m confused at the listed weights

Most reports from his prime seasons show him to be in 225-235 lbs range and he peaked around 240 lbs. He was a bit lighter than Hakeem when Shaq met him in the finals.

Wasn’t hakeem 255 ish? Or was that weight wrong

[70sFan]

How heavy was Russell again? I’m confused at the listed weights

Most reports from his prime seasons show him to be in 225-235 lbs range and he peaked around 240 lbs. He was a bit lighter than Hakeem when Shaq met him in the finals.

Wasn’t hakeem 255 ish? Or was that weight wrong

Certainly not for the most of his prime, not sure for the 1995 but likely not as well. It doesn't matter because weight didn't help Hakeem against Shaq, but his quickness, motor, quick hands and smart positioning.

[HeartBreakKid]

So basically the 2002 Celtics get traded 2002 Ben Wallace for nothing. Not going to be enough.

Not like that at all, really.

[iggymcfrack]

Lakers in 6 or 7. Shaq would still be able to lean on Russell with his size and the Celtics really wouldn’t be that great of a fit with Russell since they already struggled offensively.

[prolific passer]

Would have been interesting to see Russell vs Shaq but idk. I think the Celtics try to tire Shaq buy fast breaking as much as they can. Cowens and/or Parish would be also interesting with their mid range games and ability to run the floor and try to tire Shaq out that way.

[homecourtloss]

If prime Bill Russell was dropped onto the 2002 Celtics, would they have beaten the Lakers for the title?

Assume that Russell takes Tony Battie's spot on the team and gets a full offseason to acclimate to the modern game, plus will have gone through the regular season and playoffs before facing LA.

Kenny Anderson / Tony Delk
Paul Pierce / Erick Strickland
Eric Williams / Rodney Rogers
Antoine Walker / Walter McCarty
Bill Russell / Mark Blount

Is this Russell getting plopped into 2002 as is or is it Russell getting time to adjust or is it assuming that Russell has the same exact impact in 2002 as he did in his prime

If it’s that he has the same exact impact that he had in his prime, which would be difficult given the fact that likely a smaller percentage of shots would have him directly contesting them given that opponents will take three pointers that didn’t exist when he was in his prime (though if he’s outside contesting three pointers successfully, then perhaps that could ameliorate for that), the Celtics would likely have one of the best defenses in the modern era as they were already the fifth rank defense that year. Tony Battie it was a pretty good thunder, but what would begin with Russell would be too great of an advantage. I likely see that series with the Lakers going six or seven.

[rand]

If prime Bill Russell was dropped onto the 2002 Celtics, would they have beaten the Lakers for the title?

Assume that Russell takes Tony Battie's spot on the team and gets a full offseason to acclimate to the modern game, plus will have gone through the regular season and playoffs before facing LA.

Kenny Anderson / Tony Delk
Paul Pierce / Erick Strickland
Eric Williams / Rodney Rogers
Antoine Walker / Walter McCarty
Bill Russell / Mark Blount

Is this Russell getting plopped into 2002 as is or is it Russell getting time to adjust or is it assuming that Russell has the same exact impact in 2002 as he did in his prime

If it’s that he has the same exact impact that he had in his prime, which would be difficult given the fact that likely a smaller percentage of shots would have him directly contesting them given that opponents will take three pointers that didn’t exist when he was in his prime (though if he’s outside contesting three pointers successfully, then perhaps that could ameliorate for that), the Celtics would likely have one of the best defenses in the modern era as they were already the fifth rank defense that year. Tony Battie it was a pretty good thunder, but what would begin with Russell would be too great of an advantage. I likely see that series with the Lakers going six or seven.

As indicated above, Russell gets a full offseason (May to September) to train with modern coaches/players/trainers followed by a full ordinary NBA season with a team training camp, preseason, regular season and playoffs. I think by the time he faces LA at the end of this full year of modern basketball his acclimation will be pretty close to complete.

[onedayattatime]

I'm assuming that the 2002 Celtics know who Bill Russell is? (He's just magically there and younger.) I think it's unusually important with Russell for two reasons:

1) The organization might not immediately understand his value otherwise since so much of his impact is defense (cf. the start of Ben Wallace's career, not that I'm otherwise agreeing with the comparison to Wallace in this thread).
2) A franchise's GOAT player suddenly joining the team and saying he will lead them to the promised land must have a huge effect on morale and getting players to buy into their roles.

Ultimately, I think if this assumption is true, then the Celtics win a close series. Secondary rationale/assumptions:

1) The Celtics would have homecourt advantage. In reality, the 2002 Celtics only needed 10 more wins to have a better record than the Lakers. Surely even outside of his era, Bill Russell is worth at least 10 more wins in an incredibly weak conference.
2) They would have the best defense, and their offense would be at least average. People have mentioned that the real Celtics had a bad offense, which is true, but it wasn't terrible by 2002 standards. They were 18th out of 29 teams.
3) Russell's intangibles/leadership would negate Phil Jackson's coaching advantage.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Most reports from his prime seasons show him to be in 225-235 lbs range and he peaked around 240 lbs. He was a bit lighter than Hakeem when Shaq met him in the finals.

Wasn’t hakeem 255 ish? Or was that weight wrong

Certainly not for the most of his prime, not sure for the 1995 but likely not as well. It doesn't matter because weight didn't help Hakeem against Shaq, but his quickness, motor, quick hands and smart positioning.

I was just going off his listed weight. I’ve never seen the 1995 series, but I remember colts18 did a breakdown awhile back on it

[migya]

The Lakers other players were better considerably than the Celts so Lakers win in six likely.