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Ignore playoffs (both production and hypothetical skillset "translation") -- strictly based off *regular season impact*, which 5 players had the best regular season offensive campaigns ever?

To me 16 Steph and 22/23 Jokic are no-brainers (probably my top 2 tbh). Some others in the convo would be the obvious culprits (Magic/Jordan/Lebron/Nash), and I'd throw in 19/20 Harden too for a strictly RS offense conversation like this.

Individual

Wilt, MJ, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, KAJ

Team

Magic, Nash, Curry, Jokic, Oscar

No order

16 Steph - Just obscene, right at goat level TS add (well north of 400, iirc) as a result of shockwave sending 3P onslaughts and underrated complementary skill sets to go with that and the movement. He was still fairly on ball that season too, where I have no problem given the results.

13 LBJ - Could be close with him and Jokic I guess. I’ll take James here, as I’m very impressed with the combination of turnover economy/enhanced passing/off-ball cutting and short rolling skills/and cerebral scoring. The jump shot was falling that year too, adding a very complete HC skillset with GOAT transition play.

23 Jokic - Basketball supercomputer. On offense, he’s a taller and stronger Larry Bird who makes almost any defender available on him look foolish. Unless they’re taken away, leaves no prisoners Ito exploiting passing lanes and pass trajectories that seem nearly impossible. I think he has the best connective skillset on offense (quick passes, screening, off the ball scoring) in NBA history.

91 Jordan - What’s there to say that’s not been said about this season through many peak project iterations . In all seriousness, very formidable argument for GOAT scorer (moreso in a playoff sense) , and this is the year it seems he played much stronger in an absolute sense and functionally to mitigate any marginal drop in athleticism. GOAT mid-range scorer, all-time finisher (either as a cutter or slasher) for a guard, with great turnover economy as a result of risk averse (but very effective) passing for his era.

90 Johnson - Like James and Jordan, so many damn great choices to pick from here. In an RS sense, I’m going with 1990. I’m very impressed with (1) how the Lakers completely shifted their pace and somewhat their tactical approach - from what I’ve seen and (2) how Magic added more outside shooting to an already robust arsenal with solid driving/post-play and the playmaking game which made Magic, Magic.

Tier 1
16 Steph

Tier 2 (No Specific Order)
22/23 Jokic
87/90 Magic
91 MJ
10 Lebron

Will say, 19 Harden very possibly should be here.

wafflzgod wrote:Ignore playoffs (both production and hypothetical skillset "translation") -- strictly based off *regular season impact*, which 5 players had the best regular season offensive campaigns ever?

To me 16 Steph and 22/23 Jokic are no-brainers (probably my top 2 tbh). Some others in the convo would be the obvious culprits (Magic/Jordan/Lebron/Nash), and I'd throw in 19/20 Harden too for a strictly RS offense conversation like this.

I think by the standard of Steph and Jokic, 2010 Lebron, 64 Oscar, 05 Nash and 87 Magic are no-brainers as well.

By rs impact, MJ's 89 is probably the right pick as that is when his playmaking peaks(passer-rating and box-score) and he is a primary, and he is scoring vs significantly greater defensive attention. People picking 91 might be suffering from winning bias. 87 might be bird's offensive peak. 2013, 2009, and 2020 Lebron all warrant a mention. You can also pick the oscar and magic year but their primes belong here too.

Harden probably doesn't belong here. Kareem might warrant a mention

OhayoKD wrote:

wafflzgod wrote:Ignore playoffs (both production and hypothetical skillset "translation") -- strictly based off *regular season impact*, which 5 players had the best regular season offensive campaigns ever?

To me 16 Steph and 22/23 Jokic are no-brainers (probably my top 2 tbh). Some others in the convo would be the obvious culprits (Magic/Jordan/Lebron/Nash), and I'd throw in 19/20 Harden too for a strictly RS offense conversation like this.

I think by the standard of Steph and Jokic, 2010 Lebron, 64 Oscar, 05 Nash and 87 Magic are no-brainers as well.

By rs impact, MJ's 89 is probably the right pick as that is when his playmaking peaks(passer-rating and box-score) and he is a primary, and he is scoring vs significantly greater defensive attention. People picking 91 might be suffering from winning bias. 87 might be bird's offensive peak. 2013, 2009, and 2020 Lebron all warrant a mention. You can also pick the oscar and magic year but their primes belong here too.

Harden probably doesn't belong here. Kareem might warrant a mention

How much do you weight for turnover economy in all of this?

If individual, not team, this looks like a job for PER . The top 5 players with the highest PER also hold all the other spots in the top 11 (Curry #12 and Embiid #13) so it's consistent too.

1. Jokic 22 (also #11)
2. Wilt 62 (also #5, #8)
3. Giannis 22 (also #4)
6. Jordan 99 (also #9)
7. LeBron 09 (also #10)

penbeast0 wrote:If individual, not team, this looks like a job for PER . The top 5 players with the highest PER also hold all the other spots in the top 11 (Curry #12 and Embiid #13) so it's consistent too.

1. Jokic 22 (also #11)
2. Wilt 62 (also #5, #8)
3. Giannis 22 (also #4)
6. Jordan 99 (also #9)
7. LeBron 09 (also #10)

Lack of Magic, Nash, or Oscar is a redflag(and also to be expected given what per has access to)

rk2023 wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:

wafflzgod wrote:Ignore playoffs (both production and hypothetical skillset "translation") -- strictly based off *regular season impact*, which 5 players had the best regular season offensive campaigns ever?

To me 16 Steph and 22/23 Jokic are no-brainers (probably my top 2 tbh). Some others in the convo would be the obvious culprits (Magic/Jordan/Lebron/Nash), and I'd throw in 19/20 Harden too for a strictly RS offense conversation like this.

I think by the standard of Steph and Jokic, 2010 Lebron, 64 Oscar, 05 Nash and 87 Magic are no-brainers as well.

By rs impact, MJ's 89 is probably the right pick as that is when his playmaking peaks(passer-rating and box-score) and he is a primary, and he is scoring vs significantly greater defensive attention. People picking 91 might be suffering from winning bias. 87 might be bird's offensive peak. 2013, 2009, and 2020 Lebron all warrant a mention. You can also pick the oscar and magic year but their primes belong here too.

Harden probably doesn't belong here. Kareem might warrant a mention

How much do you weight for turnover economy in all of this?

It's relevant, but it's important that "turnover economy" is being assess relative to the totality of what a player is doing with the ball, not just scoring and assisting. Having a somewhat higher turnover% while you're handling the ball alot more and facing more defensive attention doesn't really mean your turnover economcy is worse

OhayoKD wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:If individual, not team, this looks like a job for PER . The top 5 players with the highest PER also hold all the other spots in the top 11 (Curry #12 and Embiid #13) so it's consistent too.

1. Jokic 22 (also #11)
2. Wilt 62 (also #5, #8)
3. Giannis 22 (also #4)
6. Jordan 99 (also #9)
7. LeBron 09 (also #10)

Lack of Magic, Nash, or Oscar is a redflag(and also to be expected given what per has access to)

That's why I said individual impact, not team impact.

penbeast0 wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:If individual, not team, this looks like a job for PER . The top 5 players with the highest PER also hold all the other spots in the top 11 (Curry #12 and Embiid #13) so it's consistent too.

1. Jokic 22 (also #11)
2. Wilt 62 (also #5, #8)
3. Giannis 22 (also #4)
6. Jordan 99 (also #9)
7. LeBron 09 (also #10)

Lack of Magic, Nash, or Oscar is a redflag(and also to be expected given what per has access to)

That's why I said individual impact, not team impact.

what is the difference between individual impact and team impact here

Individual ignores the playmaking and gravity effects that can create better looks for others and make teammates better just by your presence, thus the absence of the great PGs. It wasn't an actual attempt to make a list, just throwing it out there for fun.

My immediate thought here:

'66-67 Wilt: The magic season (also the one I'll remove from my list if I have to trim it to 5 guys)
'70-71 Kareem: A new standard for offensive excellence
'86-87 Magic: best we'd ever seen
'04-05 Nash: Ruthian gap in ORtg between him and the rest of the league
'15-16 Curry: Completely changed what we thought was possible
'22-23 Jokic: Absolute mastery.

Shout outs to Jordan & LeBron who I'm not looking to knock, but don't have an RS that calls out to me quite the same way.

penbeast0 wrote:

OhayoKD wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:If individual, not team, this looks like a job for PER . The top 5 players with the highest PER also hold all the other spots in the top 11 (Curry #12 and Embiid #13) so it's consistent too.

1. Jokic 22 (also #11)
2. Wilt 62 (also #5, #8)
3. Giannis 22 (also #4)
6. Jordan 99 (also #9)
7. LeBron 09 (also #10)

Lack of Magic, Nash, or Oscar is a redflag(and also to be expected given what per has access to)

That's why I said individual impact, not team impact.

PER is a bottom tier advanced stat.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Doctor MJ wrote:My immediate thought here:

'66-67 Wilt: The magic season (also the one I'll remove from my list if I have to trim it to 5 guys)
'70-71 Kareem: A new standard for offensive excellence
'86-87 Magic: best we'd ever seen
'04-05 Nash: Ruthian gap in ORtg between him and the rest of the league
'15-16 Curry: Completely changed what we thought was possible
'22-23 Jokic: Absolute mastery.

Shout outs to Jordan & LeBron who I'm not looking to knock, but don't have an RS that calls out to me quite the same way.

Just my $.02 here; if we’re going with guys whom not only had marvelous / masterpiece performances but also shattered expectations and the constraints of their eras - I’d add 64 Oscar and 00 Shaq here

1990 Magic
1988 Bird
1990 Jordan
2013 James
2005 Nash

No order above. HM to 2000 Shaq and 2023 Jokic.

67 Wilt
91 MJ
00 Shaq
16 Steph
23 Joker