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Who's the better player at peak?

If we are talking about peak only then I would choose Brand but he really only had a two year peak. Otherwise the early parts of their career were somewhat similar and Lamarcus obviously enjoyed a longer career at a high level but Lamarcus doesn't ever reach Brands 05-06 season as far as peaks go. Brand was clearly much better defensively and I even hypothesize he would be a legit defender in today's era as a smaller 5 with a low center of gravity and great instincts always using crafty angles and blocking shots with his gigantic wing span. His defense was still legit after the injury but without that same speed he couldn't close out the same way. Brand played phenomenal in the playoffs his peak year, throwing smart passes out of double teams and ripping the Suns apart. As a straight up scorer I would concede that Lamarcus is the better option and his midrange jumper is incredibly effective but I think he lacked anything that he could say was better than Brand at his peak.

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Brand rather easily. His peak is up there, right below the ATG PF's. You could argue him with someone like McHale or Webber.

Aldridge is a step lower.

Bwelc679 wrote:If we are talking about peak only then I would choose Brand but he really only had a two year peak. Otherwise the early parts of their career were somewhat similar and Lamarcus obviously enjoyed a longer career at a high level but Lamarcus doesn't ever reach Brands 05-06 season as far as peaks go. Brand was clearly much better defensively and I even hypothesize he would be a legit defender in today's era as a smaller 5 with a low center of gravity and great instincts always using crafty angles and blocking shots with his gigantic wing span. His defense was still legit after the injury but without that same speed he couldn't close out the same way. Brand played phenomenal in the playoffs his peak year, throwing smart passes out of double teams and ripping the Suns apart. As a straight up scorer I would concede that Lamarcus is the better option and his midrange jumper is incredibly effective but I think he lacked anything that he could say was better than Brand at his peak.

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I also think Brand could easily become a threat from three in the modern NBA (although obviously Aldridge could/did too).

Colbinii wrote:Brand rather easily. His peak is up there, right below the ATG PF's. You could argue him with someone like McHale or Webber.

Aldridge is a step lower.

Wow now. Webber maybe but McHale? I don't think he's in that conversation. McHale did have a shorter statistical peak but he was incredible even when he was a 6th man. McHale was doing things on arguably the best team of all time (not my choice but I understand the argument). He was extremely efficient and would have averaged over 25 a game probably for 6-7 consecutive seasons if he was "the guy" on a fringe playoff team like Eltons Clippers. I mean, the one year the Clippers made a run he was awesome so if you are arguing at their 1 year peak that you could compare them then I can kinda see the argument but overall McHale has a longer peak and is so much deadlier as a scoring option. He also was incredibly versatile on defense guarding whoever was too fast for Bird so he could do all the things Elton did but a bit more agile without as much brute strength.

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Bwelc679 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Brand rather easily. His peak is up there, right below the ATG PF's. You could argue him with someone like McHale or Webber.

Aldridge is a step lower.

Wow now. Webber maybe but McHale? I don't think he's in that conversation. McHale did have a shorter statistical peak but he was incredible even when he was a 6th man. McHale was doing things on arguably the best team of all time (not my choice but I understand the argument). He was extremely efficient and would have averaged over 25 a game probably for 6-7 consecutive seasons if he was "the guy" on a fringe playoff team like Eltons Clippers. I mean, the one year the Clippers made a run he was awesome so if you are arguing at their 1 year peak that you could compare them then I can kinda see the argument but overall McHale has a longer peak and is so much deadlier as a scoring option. He also was incredibly versatile on defense guarding whoever was too fast for Bird so he could do all the things Elton did but a bit more agile without as much brute strength.

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So the argument you are presenting here is McHale played with Bird/Johnson/Parish/Ainge while Brand had Mobley/Cassell/Kaman/Maggette?

I see Brand is still overrated af.

Colbinii wrote:Brand rather easily. His peak is up there, right below the ATG PF's. You could argue him with someone like McHale or Webber.

Aldridge is a step lower.

I don't think McHale and Webber present the same peak level. I can easily see Brand over Webber, not so sure about McHale.

Brand is a better defender but Aldridge was far more prolific on offense.

Colbinii wrote:

Bwelc679 wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Brand rather easily. His peak is up there, right below the ATG PF's. You could argue him with someone like McHale or Webber.

Aldridge is a step lower.

Wow now. Webber maybe but McHale? I don't think he's in that conversation. McHale did have a shorter statistical peak but he was incredible even when he was a 6th man. McHale was doing things on arguably the best team of all time (not my choice but I understand the argument). He was extremely efficient and would have averaged over 25 a game probably for 6-7 consecutive seasons if he was "the guy" on a fringe playoff team like Eltons Clippers. I mean, the one year the Clippers made a run he was awesome so if you are arguing at their 1 year peak that you could compare them then I can kinda see the argument but overall McHale has a longer peak and is so much deadlier as a scoring option. He also was incredibly versatile on defense guarding whoever was too fast for Bird so he could do all the things Elton did but a bit more agile without as much brute strength.

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So the argument you are presenting here is McHale played with Bird/Johnson/Parish/Ainge while Brand had Mobley/Cassell/Kaman/Maggette?

I know you are just reading between the lines to try and make your point more valid but I will bite anyways.
My point was that McHale had great numbers even while on a squad where he was never the number one option and some games was not even the number 2 (for many seasons he was not the number 2 but others he clearly was). If he was the clear alpha on the team like Elton then he would have produced far greater numbers which is why statistically you can make that argument but McHale did so on all time great teams as more of a ceiling raiser. Kevin was consistently leading the league in field goal percentage and just dropping 25ppg on 60% shooting with the greatest array of post moves ever seen. I believe that's a tier above Brand.

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Slava wrote:Brand is a better defender but Aldridge was far more prolific on offense.

Really? LMA never was really an efficient scorer nor was he much of a high volume guy. Brand during his prime was certainly the more efficient player of the two. Is it because LMA is a bit more of a self creator?

RCM88x wrote:

Slava wrote:Brand is a better defender but Aldridge was far more prolific on offense.

Really? LMA never was really an efficient scorer nor was he much of a high volume guy. Brand during his prime was certainly the more efficient player of the two. Is it because LMA is a bit more of a self creator?

Yeah the self creation and a much wider scoring repertoire. Aldridges efficiency suffered in comparison as he didn’t shoot many 3s and wasn’t particularly impressive at drawing fouls but he was quite efficient in relation to his shot selection and had a low turnover rate relative to his volume.

Slava wrote:

RCM88x wrote:

Slava wrote:Brand is a better defender but Aldridge was far more prolific on offense.

Really? LMA never was really an efficient scorer nor was he much of a high volume guy. Brand during his prime was certainly the more efficient player of the two. Is it because LMA is a bit more of a self creator?

Yeah the self creation and a much wider scoring repertoire. Aldridges efficiency suffered in comparison as he didn’t shoot many 3s and wasn’t particularly impressive at drawing fouls but he was quite efficient in relation to his shot selection and had a low turnover rate relative to his volume.

This question is about peaks though...

2006 Brand: 5.1 OBPM [6.7 BPM & 6.8 VORP], +106.8 TS+, 39.6 FTR, 9.3 TOV%, +6.5 Offensive On/Off
2018 Aldridge: 4.3 OBPM [3.9 BPM & 3.7 VORP], +41.5 TS+, 29.6 FTR, 8.8 TOV%, +6.1 Offensive On/Off

Looks rather similar offensively, with Brand being a more efficient scorer and good [not great] as a turnover economy cog. The defensive advantage for Brand is quite large, while Aldridge had an excellent defensive cast [SlowMo, Danny Green and Dejounte Murray].

The question then to ask is where exactly does the wider scoring repertoire and self-creation lead? Typically, this advantage oozes into a higher FTR and a Higher AST Rate, allowing a player to be higher-usage scale up in terms of impacting an offense by being a good+ playmaker and drawing free throws via penetration [creating offensive gravity]. Aldridge has value offensively as you alluded to--turnover economy and operating in the midrange at a league average efficiency--but his skill-set doesn't have the depth to truly catapult him over a two-way guy like Brand.

Colbinii wrote:

Slava wrote:

RCM88x wrote:
Really? LMA never was really an efficient scorer nor was he much of a high volume guy. Brand during his prime was certainly the more efficient player of the two. Is it because LMA is a bit more of a self creator?

Yeah the self creation and a much wider scoring repertoire. Aldridges efficiency suffered in comparison as he didn’t shoot many 3s and wasn’t particularly impressive at drawing fouls but he was quite efficient in relation to his shot selection and had a low turnover rate relative to his volume.

This question is about peaks though...

2006 Brand: 5.1 OBPM [6.7 BPM & 6.8 VORP], +106.8 TS+, 39.6 FTR, 9.3 TOV%, +6.5 Offensive On/Off
2018 Aldridge: 4.3 OBPM [3.9 BPM & 3.7 VORP], +41.5 TS+, 29.6 FTR, 8.8 TOV%, +6.1 Offensive On/Off

Looks rather similar offensively, with Brand being a more efficient scorer and good [not great] as a turnover economy cog. The defensive advantage for Brand is quite large, while Aldridge had an excellent defensive cast [SlowMo, Danny Green and Dejounte Murray].

The question then to ask is where exactly does the wider scoring repertoire and self-creation lead? Typically, this advantage oozes into a higher FTR and a Higher AST Rate, allowing a player to be higher-usage scale up in terms of impacting an offense by being a good+ playmaker and drawing free throws via penetration [creating offensive gravity]. Aldridge has value offensively as you alluded to--turnover economy and operating in the midrange at a league average efficiency--but his skill-set doesn't have the depth to truly catapult him over a two-way guy like Brand.

Brands peak being so short and so long ago makes it even harder to recall to be honest.

Slava wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

Slava wrote:
Yeah the self creation and a much wider scoring repertoire. Aldridges efficiency suffered in comparison as he didn’t shoot many 3s and wasn’t particularly impressive at drawing fouls but he was quite efficient in relation to his shot selection and had a low turnover rate relative to his volume.

This question is about peaks though...

2006 Brand: 5.1 OBPM [6.7 BPM & 6.8 VORP], +106.8 TS+, 39.6 FTR, 9.3 TOV%, +6.5 Offensive On/Off
2018 Aldridge: 4.3 OBPM [3.9 BPM & 3.7 VORP], +41.5 TS+, 29.6 FTR, 8.8 TOV%, +6.1 Offensive On/Off

Looks rather similar offensively, with Brand being a more efficient scorer and good [not great] as a turnover economy cog. The defensive advantage for Brand is quite large, while Aldridge had an excellent defensive cast [SlowMo, Danny Green and Dejounte Murray].

The question then to ask is where exactly does the wider scoring repertoire and self-creation lead? Typically, this advantage oozes into a higher FTR and a Higher AST Rate, allowing a player to be higher-usage scale up in terms of impacting an offense by being a good+ playmaker and drawing free throws via penetration [creating offensive gravity]. Aldridge has value offensively as you alluded to--turnover economy and operating in the midrange at a league average efficiency--but his skill-set doesn't have the depth to truly catapult him over a two-way guy like Brand.

Brands peak being so short and so long ago makes it even harder to recall to be honest.

And the fact he played for the Clippers

Brand, better passer, defender, he got handles and speed and he can score with the best of them