1980-’92 Celtics: Replace Bird w/ Kevin Durant

[Matt15]

How many titles would the Celtics win if Durant replaces Bird on the Celtics?

80 Celtics-10 Durant
81 Celtics-11 Durant
82 Celtics-12 Durant
83 Celtics-13 Durant
84 Celtics-14 Durant
85 Celtics-15 Durant
86 Celtics-16 Durant
87 Celtics-17 Durant
88 Celtics-18 Durant
89 Celtics-19 Durant
90 Celtics-20 Durant
91 Celtics-21 Durant
92 Celtics-22 Durant

[One_and_Done]

KD fits anywhere... but this isn't the greatest team to put around him.

[Warspite]

Bird is a leader of men who makes his teammates better. Durant has trouble leading kids to Chucky Cheese.

Durant would have to not only outplay Bird but since he lacks the intangibles of Bird he would have to also have to compensate for his teammates lesser play. Replacing Bird with Durant reminds me of (and would get you similar results) to replacing Bird with Nique which was a big debate in the 80s.

[homecourtloss]

Bird is a leader of men who makes his teammates better. Durant has trouble leading kids to Chucky Cheese.

Durant would have to not only outplay Bird but since he lacks the intangibles of Bird he would have to also have to compensate for his teammates lesser play. Replacing Bird with Durant reminds me of (and would get you similar results) to replacing Bird with Nique which was a big debate in the 80s.

Yes, that was a debate in the ‘80s, but Kevin Durant is multiple tiers in front of a zero defense, generally inefficient chucker like Wilkins.

[SNPA]

Bird is a leader of men who makes his teammates better. Durant has trouble leading kids to Chucky Cheese.

Durant would have to not only outplay Bird but since he lacks the intangibles of Bird he would have to also have to compensate for his teammates lesser play. Replacing Bird with Durant reminds me of (and would get you similar results) to replacing Bird with Nique which was a big debate in the 80s.

Yes, that was a debate in the ‘80s, but Kevin Durant is multiple tiers in front of a zero defense, generally inefficient chucker like Wilkins.

The point stands. Bird is a proven leader, killer and winner. Durant rode Curry’s fully loaded bus but otherwise hasn’t won once. These are not close outcome sets.

As a player Bird > Durant.

So the question is really asking how much worse, including player type, could those Celtics get swapping out Bird and still win titles.

[Odelljunior8]

....

[onedayattatime]

For the Celtics to be better with KD, he would not only need to be better than Bird, he would have to be a tier above him to compensate for the fact that the roster is optimized for Bird and not KD. Two related points:

1) Bird's passing enabled the Celtics to acquire a career shooting guard and start him at point guard. In DJ's first year with the team, he averaged 4 assists per game (6 per 100). There are also a lot of notoriously poor passers in the rotation; without Bird, this becomes pretty questionable.

2) Who exactly is KD going to guard on the opposing team? Bird's physicality and strength allowed the team to put him on power forwards. In the 1980s, I don't think I want KD on power forwards. OK, so he'll guard small forwards? Given that we're talking about a golden age for scoring small forwards, that means a lot of the time you're putting KD on the other team's best scorer. That doesn't sound great.

So I voted for 1 championship. I think in 86 that roster is stacked enough to still win, and Walton solves at least a little bit of these problems.

This might be a little off-topic, but I think if you try this thought experiment with Magic, who is more similar to Bird than KD, you also find that the Celtics and Lakers both end up worse. It's just that rosters tend to be better suited for the player that the team actually has.

[DirtyDez]

He’d be the best offensive and defensive player in the league if that answers your question.

[70sFan]

He’d be the best offensive and defensive player in the league if that answers your question.

Based on what?

[tsherkin]

Mmmm. Durant is more athletic than Bird and an absolutely insane shooter. He gives up a lot as a passer/playmaker and isn't the same level of rebounder. I think he gives up a bunch on defense as well. But Boston was a good defensive team, and Durant is mobile enough to play his actual position and to let McHale do the same.

The usual questions apply, though. Is Durant permitted to fire as freely from 3 as he has in his own career? How would his dribbling have to adapt? How about his footwork going to the basket? What would the league then think of the Eurostep?

But strictly speaking if he just showed up and scored as he does now, he'd be the best RS scorer in the league, and a better/more useful playmaker than Adrian Dantley. But we have that question about the value of high-volume, high-efficiency scoring without the same primary playmaking impact of some higher-end offensive stars, to at least some extent.

Still, you put him with McHale and Parish and DJ and Ainge and they're still going to be good, still going to contend for titles.

[DirtyDez]

He’d be the best offensive and defensive player in the league if that answers your question.

Based on what?

Talent and ability. If KD’s was dropped into the 80’s he’d average over 40 ppg.

[DirtyDez]

Bird is a leader of men who makes his teammates better. Durant has trouble leading kids to Chucky Cheese.

Durant would have to not only outplay Bird but since he lacks the intangibles of Bird he would have to also have to compensate for his teammates lesser play. Replacing Bird with Durant reminds me of (and would get you similar results) to replacing Bird with Nique which was a big debate in the 80s.

KD led a bunch of kids to the finals in 2012.

[tsherkin]

KD led a bunch of kids to the finals in 2012.

Not sure how much credence one should lend to a 66-game season where he still had Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka as far as leading "a bunch of kids" that year. The Thunder were a good team.

EDIT: I hasten to add, 2nd in team FG%, 1st in team FT%, 2nd in total team FTA, 1st in team FT/FGA, 3rd in eFG%, tops in FTr, 2nd in team ORTG. They were fast, they drew fouls, they crushed it beneath the arc, they punished you when you put them on the line. They were quite good, and it wasn't all from Durant.

[DirtyDez]

KD led a bunch of kids to the finals in 2012.

Not sure how much credence one should lend to a 66-game season where he still had Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka as far as leading "a bunch of kids" that year. The Thunder were a good team.

EDIT: I hasten to add, 2nd in team FG%, 1st in team FT%, 2nd in total team FTA, 1st in team FT/FGA, 3rd in eFG%, tops in FTr, 2nd in team ORTG. They were fast, they drew fouls, they crushed it beneath the arc, they punished you when you put them on the line. They were quite good, and it wasn't all from Durant.

It was clearly in reply to the tone of the post I quoted. KD was 1st team all nba and 2nd in mvp that year. Of course he didn’t do it alone but was by far the best player on the team. He averaged 30 ppg in the WCF and Finals at 23 years old.

[tsherkin]

It was clearly in reply to the tone of the post I quoted. KD was 1st team all nba and 2nd in mvp that year. Of course he didn’t do it alone but was by far the best player on the team. He averaged 30 ppg in the WCF and Finals at 23 years old.

He was obviously very good, yes. But again, he had a great deal of help and a shortened season in that run, so propping that up as relevant to a discussion of him replacing Bird on the Celtics doesn't really make sense to me.

[Warspite]

Bird is a leader of men who makes his teammates better. Durant has trouble leading kids to Chucky Cheese.

Durant would have to not only outplay Bird but since he lacks the intangibles of Bird he would have to also have to compensate for his teammates lesser play. Replacing Bird with Durant reminds me of (and would get you similar results) to replacing Bird with Nique which was a big debate in the 80s.

KD led a bunch of kids to the finals in 2012.

Leadership isnt about who scores the most points. Leadership is the ability to lead people. Durant is not a leader of men. He is a fantastic player but he not a leader. Maybe one day you will be part of an organization and understand difference.

[DirtyDez]

Bird is a leader of men who makes his teammates better. Durant has trouble leading kids to Chucky Cheese.

Durant would have to not only outplay Bird but since he lacks the intangibles of Bird he would have to also have to compensate for his teammates lesser play. Replacing Bird with Durant reminds me of (and would get you similar results) to replacing Bird with Nique which was a big debate in the 80s.

KD led a bunch of kids to the finals in 2012.

Leadership isnt about who scores the most points. Leadership is the ability to lead people. Durant is not a leader of men. He is a fantastic player but he not a leader. Maybe one day you will be part of an organization and understand difference.

I really just said he led OKC to the finals in 2012 (which he did). Any defense of KD on this site really brings out the spite.

[70sFan]

He’d be the best offensive and defensive player in the league if that answers your question.

Based on what?

Talent and ability. If KD’s was dropped into the 80’s he’d average over 40 ppg.

Nice slogan, but KD wouldn't touch someone like Hakeem defensively or Magic/Jordan offensively.

[DirtyDez]

Based on what?

Talent and ability. If KD’s was dropped into the 80’s he’d average over 40 ppg.

Nice slogan, but KD wouldn't touch someone like Hakeem defensively or Magic/Jordan offensively.

I exaggerated the defense admittedly but if KD is dropped into the 80’s they’d test his DNA for human genes after one quarter. Tell someone back then that a 7 footer can handle the ball and score from anywhere on the court. Bird is 10 spots firmly ahead of KD all time but this isn’t about legacy. The problem with these hypotheticals is that they’re hypotheticals. Has KD seen the past or have the 80’s NBA seen the future?

[DirtyDez]

It was clearly in reply to the tone of the post I quoted. KD was 1st team all nba and 2nd in mvp that year. Of course he didn’t do it alone but was by far the best player on the team. He averaged 30 ppg in the WCF and Finals at 23 years old.

He was obviously very good, yes. But again, he had a great deal of help and a shortened season in that run, so propping that up as relevant to a discussion of him replacing Bird on the Celtics doesn't really make sense to me.

Very good huh. He finished 2nd in MVP to apex Lebron. 2012 KD is an underrated postseason in recent years. The only thing you can really nitpick is a high turnover rate but if not for some questionable officiating down the stretch of game 2 or South Beach consuming Harden we could be talking about an all time run. Contrary to popular belief the guy has had some impressive playoff performances outside of Golden St.