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Who do you think peaked higher??

Moses, much more dynamic offensive player and although Gilmore was clearly better defensively, he made too many mistakes on that end to be considered top tier defender historically.

Hate to say that, don't ask me again!

Gilmore in today's game certainly.

One_and_Done wrote:Gilmore in today's game certainly.

How many peak Gilmore games have you seen? What sticked out to you when you watched him?

These are serious questions, I want to know your opinion about arguably my favourite player ever.

This isn't close. Moses Malone over a five-year span shared a playoff court with Julius Erving, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, George Gervin, and Magic Johnson, all in their prime. He never got outplayed. He was always the best player in the series. I don't think you can name me a single player in NBA history who did that against equal or superior competition over that span of time. If you can name me one or two, it's still the elite of the elite.

I honestly can't recall off the top of my head an impressive NBA accolade or moment that Artis Gilmore had. This is damning considering they played in the same era.

One_and_Done wrote:Gilmore in today's game certainly.

Really? The slower footed center who was much worse at Free Throws is better in the modern game?

ronnymac2 wrote:This isn't close. Moses Malone over a five-year span shared a playoff court with Julius Erving, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, George Gervin, and Magic Johnson, all in their prime. He never got outplayed. He was always the best player in the series. I don't think you can name me a single player in NBA history who did that against equal or superior competition over that span of time. If you can name me one or two, it's still the elite of the elite.

I honestly can't recall off the top of my head an impressive NBA accolade or moment that Artis Gilmore had. This is damning considering they played in the same era.

I think I disagree with almost every word of this.

You may want to look into the ABA for Artis btw.

Colbinii wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Gilmore in today's game certainly.

Really? The slower footed center who was much worse at Free Throws is better in the modern game?

To be fair, young Artis wasn't really slow footed. Older version certainly was though.

ronnymac2 wrote:This isn't close. Moses Malone over a five-year span shared a playoff court with Julius Erving, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, George Gervin, and Magic Johnson, all in their prime. He never got outplayed. He was always the best player in the series. I don't think you can name me a single player in NBA history who did that against equal or superior competition over that span of time. If you can name me one or two, it's still the elite of the elite.

I honestly can't recall off the top of my head an impressive NBA accolade or moment that Artis Gilmore had. This is damning considering they played in the same era.

From what I remember Moses had a few rough series against the Celtics in 1980 and 1981 and he didn't outplay Kareem in 1981. It was more of a draw. But yea he did play top tier competition really well.

I would have Moses > Gilmore although I haven't seen much of prime ABA Gilmore.

I would agree that Moses peaked higher. Artis was the more talented and when younger, even more of an athletic freak. But he never had the mental aggression that made Moses great, instead being generally characterized as retiring and passive.

Thus, when you need a true centerpiece, you want the guy who demands the ball and takes pride in winning every play of the game. If, on the other hand, you have a talented team already, the shotblocking and efficient scoring without needing to have his ego satisfied of a younger Artis might be more valuable to a good team.

Now, as they got older, Moses lost the lift but maintained his strength and aggression, leading to much weaker shooting and a lot of rebounding his own misses. Artis grew even more passive and in Chicago, they stationed him much closer to the basket compared to how Kentucky had used him which led to record offensive efficiency but less shots and less involvement in plays defensively. Artis then compounded this by becoming less mobile and more one dimensional in his shotmaking and defense thus eventually ending up with the nickname Rigor Artis.

Well this is sort of similar to Dr. J peak discussions. Moses and Artis put up very similar numbers in their peak playoff runs though Artis was never the volume scorer that Moses was. Both winning a title in a near peak season. So I think if you believe that Artis was nearly Moses' equal as a rebounder and perhaps significantly better defensively(while factoring in the difference in competition between the ABA and early 80's nba) there's an argument for Artis having a better peak. I don't think I know enough about Artis in terms of seeing him in his ABA days to really make a judgement despite the fact most people would say Moses was a tier or two higher as a player but that's likely clouded by how forgotten the aba tends to be.

Moses pretty firmly. Taking a very solid core in the 82 6ers and elevating them to all-time++ team standing is very impressive. Not to mention him looking rather good with his on-court net rating and on/off splits (though this *could* be inflated a tad due to co-linearity). Even with nitpicking at that or the arguments in favor / against the team data, what Moses did in the PS is nuts. Absolutely lighting up Hubie's top defensive ranked Knicks and notching 18 boards a game in the finals against showtime LA (with efficient scoring, at that) gives a ton of confidence in proclaiming this as an underratedly appreciated year.

ronnymac2 wrote:This isn't close. Moses Malone over a five-year span shared a playoff court with Julius Erving, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, George Gervin, and Magic Johnson, all in their prime. He never got outplayed. He was always the best player in the series. I don't think you can name me a single player in NBA history who did that against equal or superior competition over that span of time. If you can name me one or two, it's still the elite of the elite.

I honestly can't recall off the top of my head an impressive NBA accolade or moment that Artis Gilmore had. This is damning considering they played in the same era.

That's not quite the reality of things imo. I mean the notable series in that timeframe(I am guessing you mean 79-83) are the 80 series vs the Celtics where his team is swept(granted Moses puts up the best raw box score #'s on sort of bad efficiency), 81 vs the Lakers(outplays Kareem but not by a lot), 81 vs the Celtics(again has the best box score #'s but loses) and then 83 vs the Lakers(outplays a 36 yr old Kareem). So its a ring with a finals loss coupled with 2 1st rd exits and a 2nd rd exit during those 5 years. I wouldn't really call that one of the most dominant 5 year runs in nba history which is sort of how you framed it. Moses was never super efficient as a scorer and his defense isn't on the level of most other atg centers either. I say this as someone that is still relatively high on Moses.