Which Versions of Michael Jordan Was More Athletic Than Prime Westbrook?

[Pelly24]

Thread title. Of course, this is a subjective thing. But basically, which athlete had the best combination of maximum height vertical, leaping versatility, long jump type vertical, strength/power, stamina, stop speed, peed, balance, close quarters agility, first step explosion, change of direction ability, dexterity, etc. Some traits outweigh others. Which version of MJ were definitely more athletic than 2012-2018 Westbrook?

[SHAQ32]

All of them (MJ never played for Washington)

[1993Playoffs]

84-90 he seemed slightly less athletic each year after

Russ is definitely in that tier of athlete though

[rk2023]

Probably all of 84-93. Even with declined “raw” athleticism, I think he was a much better functional on-court athlete than Westbrook his whole Bulls career. I’d still take Russ over his 96-98 self due to the much more explosive, downhill oriented playstyle. Open to hearing the devils’ advocate , at that.

[JJ_PR]

Young MJ was the best athlete in the history of the NBA, the only player that has an argument over him is prime Wilt, & that's not mentioning that MJ had a serious injury his sophomore year.

I'd say from 1984 to 1993, MJ was more athletic than any version of Westbrook. During his second three-peat, MJ relied on his skill more, but he was still an athletic beast.

[Peregrine01]

An extra 3 inches of height and 3 inches of wingspan and the gigantic mitts are a substantial advantage. I also think young Jordan had a better motor than even prime Westbrook. The dude was all over the floor for 40+ minutes a game in his mid-20s.

[rk2023]

Young MJ was the best athlete in the history of the NBA, the only player that has an argument over him is prime Wilt, & that's not mentioning that MJ had a serious injury his sophomore year.

I'd say from 1984 to 1993, MJ was more athletic than any version of Westbrook. During his second three-peat, MJ relied on his skill more, but he was still an athletic beast.

Bill Russell and LBJ have stellar cases for this as well.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Young MJ was the best athlete in the history of the NBA, the only player that has an argument over him is prime Wilt, & that's not mentioning that MJ had a serious injury his sophomore year.

I'd say from 1984 to 1993, MJ was more athletic than any version of Westbrook. During his second three-peat, MJ relied on his skill more, but he was still an athletic beast.

Bill Russell and LBJ have stellar cases for this as well.

I know you weren’t saying this but Jordan was not more athletic than lebron lmao it’s not even a conversation, young bron probably jumped higher too along with being 30 pounds heavier and more explosive

Didnt young bron run a 4.4 40? Heat bron was noticeably slower and ran a 4.6 while he was “messing around”

[LukaTheGOAT]

Young MJ was the best athlete in the history of the NBA, the only player that has an argument over him is prime Wilt, & that's not mentioning that MJ had a serious injury his sophomore year.

I'd say from 1984 to 1993, MJ was more athletic than any version of Westbrook. During his second three-peat, MJ relied on his skill more, but he was still an athletic beast.

Bill Russell and LBJ have stellar cases for this as well.

I know you weren’t saying this but Jordan was not more athletic than lebron lmao it’s not even a conversation, young bron probably jumped higher too along with being 30 pounds heavier and more explosive

Didnt young bron run a 4.4 40? Heat bron was noticeably slower and ran a 4.6 while he was “messing around”

Lebron would be the better athlete across multiple sports. But in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball? You could argue Jordan, because Jordan is a better short-area athlete, and basketball naturally takes place in close quarters. Jordan has better short area quickness and burst. Jordan is the only guy at 6'6 who gets put in talks for GOAT first step, as he was especially outlier here. Jordan also can elevate better off 2 without much of a gather. Lebron largely specializes in 1-foot leaping. Jordan also has better stamina/motor I would say outside of 2009 Lebron. Jordan arguably has better body-control, and has has more flexibility in contorting his body in different shapes to finish, or attack off the dribble. Jordan decelerated, changes gears, and has better change of direction. Jordan also probably has better hand-eye coordination, I might argue based on his shooting prowess, and he is doing this with bigger hands than Lebron I believe.

NBA trainer PJF performance considers MJ the best NBa athlete ever for instance eve at the 18 sec mark for example:

https://youtu.be/NrIsUh7Y3K0?si=jW3_7-P5p_IAGZO8

[OhayoKD]

Bill Russell and LBJ have stellar cases for this as well.

I know you weren’t saying this but Jordan was not more athletic than lebron lmao it’s not even a conversation, young bron probably jumped higher too along with being 30 pounds heavier and more explosive

Didnt young bron run a 4.4 40? Heat bron was noticeably slower and ran a 4.6 while he was “messing around”

Lebron would be the better athlete across multiple sports. But in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball? You could argue Jordan, because Jordan is a better short-area athlete, and basketball naturally takes place in close quarters. Jordan has better short area quickness and burst. Jordan is the only guy at 6'6 who gets put in talks for GOAT first step, as he was especially outlier here. Jordan also can elevate better off 2 without much of a gather. Lebron largely specializes in 1-foot leaping. Jordan also has better stamina/motor I would say outside of 2009 Lebron. Jordan arguably has better body-control, and has has more flexibility in contorting his body in different shapes to finish, or attack off the dribble. Jordan decelerated, changes gears, and has better change of direction. Jordan also probably has better hand-eye coordination, I might argue based on his shooting prowess, and he is doing this with bigger hands than Lebron I believe.

NBA trainer PJF performance considers MJ the best NBa athlete ever for instance eve at the 18 sec mark for example:

https://youtu.be/NrIsUh7Y3K0?si=jW3_7-P5p_IAGZO8

Isn't Height and size more important to basketball than short-area athleticism?

Also interesting you added a "other than 2009" qualifier here. Would you say "you could argue jordan" vs early cleveland lebron?

[MyUniBroDavis]

Bill Russell and LBJ have stellar cases for this as well.

I know you weren’t saying this but Jordan was not more athletic than lebron lmao it’s not even a conversation, young bron probably jumped higher too along with being 30 pounds heavier and more explosive

Didnt young bron run a 4.4 40? Heat bron was noticeably slower and ran a 4.6 while he was “messing around”

Lebron would be the better athlete across multiple sports. But in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball? You could argue Jordan, because Jordan is a better short-area athlete, and basketball naturally takes place in close quarters. Jordan has better short area quickness and burst. Jordan is the only guy at 6'6 who gets put in talks for GOAT first step, as he was especially outlier here. Jordan also can elevate better off 2 without much of a gather. Lebron largely specializes in 1-foot leaping. Jordan also has better stamina/motor I would say outside of 2009 Lebron. Jordan arguably has better body-control, and has has more flexibility in contorting his body in different shapes to finish, or attack off the dribble. Jordan decelerated, changes gears, and has better change of direction. Jordan also probably has better hand-eye coordination, I might argue based on his shooting prowess, and he is doing this with bigger hands than Lebron I believe.

NBA trainer PJF performance considers MJ the best NBa athlete ever for instance eve at the 18 sec mark for example:

https://youtu.be/NrIsUh7Y3K0?si=jW3_7-P5p_IAGZO8

Lebron primarily jumps off of one foot but he absolutely can jump off of two lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUQTGVicm9uIGR1bmsgMjAwOQ%3D%3D

At about 1:45, he clearly gets his head to the rim there. He’s not as good as he is off of one, and you jump off of two more for stability in the air and absorbing contact which doesn’t matter as much when ur lebron and people bounce off of you lol

I love PJF, but he’s clearly talking more about athleticism from a movement standpoint which is fair, if they were both the same weight and height I’d probably pick Jordan, but they aren’t lol.

We’re comparing a 09 or 10 bron to young Jordan, not Miami or second stint Cleveland lebron.

Basketball athleticism sure Jordan is amazing but lebron moving the way he did 60 pounds bigger is far more impressive lol.

I don’t rate that version of lebron as highly as some others on here but athletically he was about as explosive and 50-60 pounds heavier, that level of strength different is ridiculous


Jordan had better general movement quality (deceleration and change of direction) and flexibility than lebron

Lebron likely jumped higher, was taller, and had 60 pounds on him

Jordan iirc got measured at UNC in college with a 45.7 inch max vert (full running start no ball, so different from the nba combines test which is 2 steps) and a 41 inch vert with the ball.


Young bron certainly could beat those marks I’d think, iirc the Powerade dunk contest at the all American game out of highschool he probably hit 46 inches on his second dunk which was an oop to himself anyways

The 60 pounds is a pretty big deal here

[LukaTheGOAT]

I know you weren’t saying this but Jordan was not more athletic than lebron lmao it’s not even a conversation, young bron probably jumped higher too along with being 30 pounds heavier and more explosive

Didnt young bron run a 4.4 40? Heat bron was noticeably slower and ran a 4.6 while he was “messing around”

Lebron would be the better athlete across multiple sports. But in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball? You could argue Jordan, because Jordan is a better short-area athlete, and basketball naturally takes place in close quarters. Jordan has better short area quickness and burst. Jordan is the only guy at 6'6 who gets put in talks for GOAT first step, as he was especially outlier here. Jordan also can elevate better off 2 without much of a gather. Lebron largely specializes in 1-foot leaping. Jordan also has better stamina/motor I would say outside of 2009 Lebron. Jordan arguably has better body-control, and has has more flexibility in contorting his body in different shapes to finish, or attack off the dribble. Jordan decelerated, changes gears, and has better change of direction. Jordan also probably has better hand-eye coordination, I might argue based on his shooting prowess, and he is doing this with bigger hands than Lebron I believe.

NBA trainer PJF performance considers MJ the best NBa athlete ever for instance eve at the 18 sec mark for example:

https://youtu.be/NrIsUh7Y3K0?si=jW3_7-P5p_IAGZO8

Lebron primarily jumps off of one foot but he absolutely can jump off of two lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUQTGVicm9uIGR1bmsgMjAwOQ%3D%3D

At about 1:45, he clearly gets his head to the rim there. He’s not as good as he is off of one, and you jump off of two more for stability in the air and absorbing contact which doesn’t matter as much when ur lebron and people bounce off of you lol

I love PJF, but he’s clearly talking more about athleticism from a movement standpoint which is fair, if they were both the same weight and height I’d probably pick Jordan, but they aren’t lol.

We’re comparing a 09 or 10 bron to young Jordan, not Miami or second stint Cleveland lebron.

Basketball athleticism sure Jordan is amazing but lebron moving the way he did 60 pounds bigger is far more impressive lol.

I don’t rate that version of lebron as highly as some others on here but athletically he was about as explosive and 50-60 pounds heavier, that level of strength different is ridiculous

That's why I said "in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball," Jordan could be argued. Lebron had his athleticism become shot when he added an unnecessary amount of weight in Miami. Miami Lebron looks like he's moving in quick sand at times, his closeout defense is somewhat problematic at times, and he doesn't have the lateral quickness typical of many elite wing defenders.

I guess if you wanted to curve for the fact that Lebron unnecessarily added weight in Miami, that makes things more interesting. But I'm talking about athleticism in a functional sense, and Lebron hurt his function athleticism, when he became closer a bodybuilder build.

There's a reason why 16 and 17 Lebron, even at an older age, is doing things in short areas that Miami Lebron didn't always. He finally dropped the weight.Wright.

Also I am quite sure that PJF take size into account. He has mentioned Zion is so special because he is the type of athlete that basketball just doesn't get often...rather they are playing football a lot of the time.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Lebron would be the better athlete across multiple sports. But in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball? You could argue Jordan, because Jordan is a better short-area athlete, and basketball naturally takes place in close quarters. Jordan has better short area quickness and burst. Jordan is the only guy at 6'6 who gets put in talks for GOAT first step, as he was especially outlier here. Jordan also can elevate better off 2 without much of a gather. Lebron largely specializes in 1-foot leaping. Jordan also has better stamina/motor I would say outside of 2009 Lebron. Jordan arguably has better body-control, and has has more flexibility in contorting his body in different shapes to finish, or attack off the dribble. Jordan decelerated, changes gears, and has better change of direction. Jordan also probably has better hand-eye coordination, I might argue based on his shooting prowess, and he is doing this with bigger hands than Lebron I believe.

NBA trainer PJF performance considers MJ the best NBa athlete ever for instance eve at the 18 sec mark for example:

https://youtu.be/NrIsUh7Y3K0?si=jW3_7-P5p_IAGZO8

Lebron primarily jumps off of one foot but he absolutely can jump off of two lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUQTGVicm9uIGR1bmsgMjAwOQ%3D%3D

At about 1:45, he clearly gets his head to the rim there. He’s not as good as he is off of one, and you jump off of two more for stability in the air and absorbing contact which doesn’t matter as much when ur lebron and people bounce off of you lol

I love PJF, but he’s clearly talking more about athleticism from a movement standpoint which is fair, if they were both the same weight and height I’d probably pick Jordan, but they aren’t lol.

We’re comparing a 09 or 10 bron to young Jordan, not Miami or second stint Cleveland lebron.

Basketball athleticism sure Jordan is amazing but lebron moving the way he did 60 pounds bigger is far more impressive lol.

I don’t rate that version of lebron as highly as some others on here but athletically he was about as explosive and 50-60 pounds heavier, that level of strength different is ridiculous

That's why I said "in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball," Jordan could be argued. Lebron had his athleticism become shot when he added an unnecessary amount of weight in Miami. Miami Lebron looks like he's moving in quick sand at times, his closeout defense is somewhat problematic at times, and he doesn't have the lateral quickness typical of many elite wing defenders.

I guess if you wanted to curve for the fact that Lebron unnecessarily added weight in Miami, that makes things more interesting. But I'm talking about athleticism in a functional sense, and Lebron hurt his function athleticism, when he became closer a bodybuilder build.

There's a reason why 16 and 17 Lebron, even at an older age, is doing things in short areas that Miami Lebron didn't always. He finally dropped the weight.Wright.

Also I am quite sure that PJF take size into account. He has mentioned Zion is so special because he is the type of athlete that basketball just doesn't get often...rather they are playing football a lot of the time.

Do you mean 5 year prime or 5 year athletic prime

PJF takes size into account but in this context he was talking more movement quality I think. He’s bigger on that than other things because his programs are based on that. His online workouts are sick btw, got my jump to pre ACL levels


But if we’re talking about functional athleticism brons body clears, 60-70 pounds of weight kind of does carry lol

[LukaTheGOAT]

Lebron primarily jumps off of one foot but he absolutely can jump off of two lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUQTGVicm9uIGR1bmsgMjAwOQ%3D%3D

At about 1:45, he clearly gets his head to the rim there. He’s not as good as he is off of one, and you jump off of two more for stability in the air and absorbing contact which doesn’t matter as much when ur lebron and people bounce off of you lol

I love PJF, but he’s clearly talking more about athleticism from a movement standpoint which is fair, if they were both the same weight and height I’d probably pick Jordan, but they aren’t lol.

We’re comparing a 09 or 10 bron to young Jordan, not Miami or second stint Cleveland lebron.

Basketball athleticism sure Jordan is amazing but lebron moving the way he did 60 pounds bigger is far more impressive lol.

I don’t rate that version of lebron as highly as some others on here but athletically he was about as explosive and 50-60 pounds heavier, that level of strength different is ridiculous

That's why I said "in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball," Jordan could be argued. Lebron had his athleticism become shot when he added an unnecessary amount of weight in Miami. Miami Lebron looks like he's moving in quick sand at times, his closeout defense is somewhat problematic at times, and he doesn't have the lateral quickness typical of many elite wing defenders.

I guess if you wanted to curve for the fact that Lebron unnecessarily added weight in Miami, that makes things more interesting. But I'm talking about athleticism in a functional sense, and Lebron hurt his function athleticism, when he became closer a bodybuilder build.

There's a reason why 16 and 17 Lebron, even at an older age, is doing things in short areas that Miami Lebron didn't always. He finally dropped the weight.Wright.

Also I am quite sure that PJF take size into account. He has mentioned Zion is so special because he is the type of athlete that basketball just doesn't get often...rather they are playing football a lot of the time.

Do you mean 5 year prime or 5 year athletic prime

PJF takes size into account but in this context he was talking more movement quality I think. He’s bigger on that than other things because his programs are based on that. His online workouts are sick btw, got my jump to pre ACL levels


But if we’re talking about functional athleticism brons body clears, 60-70 pounds of weight kind of does carry lol

I meant 5-year athletic prime.

BTW did you do the durability program for your ACL?

[MyUniBroDavis]

That's why I said "in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball," Jordan could be argued. Lebron had his athleticism become shot when he added an unnecessary amount of weight in Miami. Miami Lebron looks like he's moving in quick sand at times, his closeout defense is somewhat problematic at times, and he doesn't have the lateral quickness typical of many elite wing defenders.

I guess if you wanted to curve for the fact that Lebron unnecessarily added weight in Miami, that makes things more interesting. But I'm talking about athleticism in a functional sense, and Lebron hurt his function athleticism, when he became closer a bodybuilder build.

There's a reason why 16 and 17 Lebron, even at an older age, is doing things in short areas that Miami Lebron didn't always. He finally dropped the weight.Wright.

Also I am quite sure that PJF take size into account. He has mentioned Zion is so special because he is the type of athlete that basketball just doesn't get often...rather they are playing football a lot of the time.

Do you mean 5 year prime or 5 year athletic prime

PJF takes size into account but in this context he was talking more movement quality I think. He’s bigger on that than other things because his programs are based on that. His online workouts are sick btw, got my jump to pre ACL levels


But if we’re talking about functional athleticism brons body clears, 60-70 pounds of weight kind of does carry lol

I meant 5-year athletic prime.

BTW did you do the durability program for your ACL?

No I just did some of his online stuff and stuff he has on his app and just did what looks good

My vert pre ACL tear was around 34-35, after it was 22-24(I’m a one foot jumper and I tore my left foot), now my left foot is back at 28-30 and my right is around 36 with an unlimited run up, but I messed up my ankle lmao

PJF workouts go crazy I could probably hit 40 if I didn’t quit every few weeks out of laziness lol, highly recommend

[LukaTheGOAT]

Do you mean 5 year prime or 5 year athletic prime

PJF takes size into account but in this context he was talking more movement quality I think. He’s bigger on that than other things because his programs are based on that. His online workouts are sick btw, got my jump to pre ACL levels


But if we’re talking about functional athleticism brons body clears, 60-70 pounds of weight kind of does carry lol

I meant 5-year athletic prime.

BTW did you do the durability program for your ACL?

No I just did some of his online stuff and stuff he has on his app and just did what looks good

My vert pre ACL tear was around 34-35, after it was 22-24(I’m a one foot jumper and I tore my left foot), now my left foot is back at 28-30 and my right is around 36 with an unlimited run up, but I messed up my ankle lmao

PJF workouts go crazy I could probably hit 40 if I didn’t quit every few weeks out of laziness lol, highly recommend

Okay cool, that's good to hear. How's your general speed and quickness after the injury?

[RCM88x]

84-93, I'd probably take 95 and 96 too

97 and 98 are debatable, Wizards Jordan is well below

[Pelly24]

I know you weren’t saying this but Jordan was not more athletic than lebron lmao it’s not even a conversation, young bron probably jumped higher too along with being 30 pounds heavier and more explosive

Didnt young bron run a 4.4 40? Heat bron was noticeably slower and ran a 4.6 while he was “messing around”

Lebron would be the better athlete across multiple sports. But in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball? You could argue Jordan, because Jordan is a better short-area athlete, and basketball naturally takes place in close quarters. Jordan has better short area quickness and burst. Jordan is the only guy at 6'6 who gets put in talks for GOAT first step, as he was especially outlier here. Jordan also can elevate better off 2 without much of a gather. Lebron largely specializes in 1-foot leaping. Jordan also has better stamina/motor I would say outside of 2009 Lebron. Jordan arguably has better body-control, and has has more flexibility in contorting his body in different shapes to finish, or attack off the dribble. Jordan decelerated, changes gears, and has better change of direction. Jordan also probably has better hand-eye coordination, I might argue based on his shooting prowess, and he is doing this with bigger hands than Lebron I believe.

NBA trainer PJF performance considers MJ the best NBa athlete ever for instance eve at the 18 sec mark for example:

https://youtu.be/NrIsUh7Y3K0?si=jW3_7-P5p_IAGZO8

Lebron primarily jumps off of one foot but he absolutely can jump off of two lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUQTGVicm9uIGR1bmsgMjAwOQ%3D%3D

At about 1:45, he clearly gets his head to the rim there. He’s not as good as he is off of one, and you jump off of two more for stability in the air and absorbing contact which doesn’t matter as much when ur lebron and people bounce off of you lol

I love PJF, but he’s clearly talking more about athleticism from a movement standpoint which is fair, if they were both the same weight and height I’d probably pick Jordan, but they aren’t lol.

We’re comparing a 09 or 10 bron to young Jordan, not Miami or second stint Cleveland lebron.

Basketball athleticism sure Jordan is amazing but lebron moving the way he did 60 pounds bigger is far more impressive lol.

I don’t rate that version of lebron as highly as some others on here but athletically he was about as explosive and 50-60 pounds heavier, that level of strength different is ridiculous


Jordan had better general movement quality (deceleration and change of direction) and flexibility than lebron

Lebron likely jumped higher, was taller, and had 60 pounds on him

Jordan iirc got measured at UNC in college with a 45.7 inch max vert (full running start no ball, so different from the nba combines test which is 2 steps) and a 41 inch vert with the ball.


Young bron certainly could beat those marks I’d think, iirc the Powerade dunk contest at the all American game out of highschool he probably hit 46 inches on his second dunk which was an oop to himself anyways

The 60 pounds is a pretty big deal here

FWIW, I think it's a draw between young LeBron and young MJ. I do think MJ jumped higher from a standstill than LeBron because of his superior two-foot leaping ability. And his first step was still a little better than young LeBron's, and he was still far more flexible. But LeBron's top speed and max bounce is probably about the same, and that 40-50 pounds he had on MJ while still being elite in body control, first step and dexterity and bounce is amazing. People underrate LeBron's body control in the air and on the ground. I think 2013-2018, or even 2020 LeBron is more athletic than 1996-1998 MJ, easily.

Movement is very important, if you can't move fluidly you can't be a GOAT-level athlete IMO. LeBron and MJ are two athletes who had it *all*. I think LeBron, MJ, Deion Sanders, Bo Jackson are like the best all-around athletes I can think of, that I remember seeing.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Lebron would be the better athlete across multiple sports. But in terms of functional athleticism throughout a 5-year prime in basketball? You could argue Jordan, because Jordan is a better short-area athlete, and basketball naturally takes place in close quarters. Jordan has better short area quickness and burst. Jordan is the only guy at 6'6 who gets put in talks for GOAT first step, as he was especially outlier here. Jordan also can elevate better off 2 without much of a gather. Lebron largely specializes in 1-foot leaping. Jordan also has better stamina/motor I would say outside of 2009 Lebron. Jordan arguably has better body-control, and has has more flexibility in contorting his body in different shapes to finish, or attack off the dribble. Jordan decelerated, changes gears, and has better change of direction. Jordan also probably has better hand-eye coordination, I might argue based on his shooting prowess, and he is doing this with bigger hands than Lebron I believe.

NBA trainer PJF performance considers MJ the best NBa athlete ever for instance eve at the 18 sec mark for example:

https://youtu.be/NrIsUh7Y3K0?si=jW3_7-P5p_IAGZO8

Lebron primarily jumps off of one foot but he absolutely can jump off of two lol

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUQTGVicm9uIGR1bmsgMjAwOQ%3D%3D

At about 1:45, he clearly gets his head to the rim there. He’s not as good as he is off of one, and you jump off of two more for stability in the air and absorbing contact which doesn’t matter as much when ur lebron and people bounce off of you lol

I love PJF, but he’s clearly talking more about athleticism from a movement standpoint which is fair, if they were both the same weight and height I’d probably pick Jordan, but they aren’t lol.

We’re comparing a 09 or 10 bron to young Jordan, not Miami or second stint Cleveland lebron.

Basketball athleticism sure Jordan is amazing but lebron moving the way he did 60 pounds bigger is far more impressive lol.

I don’t rate that version of lebron as highly as some others on here but athletically he was about as explosive and 50-60 pounds heavier, that level of strength different is ridiculous


Jordan had better general movement quality (deceleration and change of direction) and flexibility than lebron

Lebron likely jumped higher, was taller, and had 60 pounds on him

Jordan iirc got measured at UNC in college with a 45.7 inch max vert (full running start no ball, so different from the nba combines test which is 2 steps) and a 41 inch vert with the ball.


Young bron certainly could beat those marks I’d think, iirc the Powerade dunk contest at the all American game out of highschool he probably hit 46 inches on his second dunk which was an oop to himself anyways

The 60 pounds is a pretty big deal here

FWIW, I think it's a draw between young LeBron and young MJ. I do think MJ jumped higher from a standstill than LeBron because of his superior two-foot leaping ability. And his first step was still a little better than young LeBron's, and he was still far more flexible. But LeBron's top speed and max bounce is probably about the same, and that 40-50 pounds he had on MJ while still being elite in body control, first step and dexterity and bounce is amazing. People underrate LeBron's body control in the air and on the ground. I think 2013-2018, or even 2020 LeBron is more athletic than 1996-1998 MJ, easily.

Movement is very important, if you can't move fluidly you can't be a GOAT-level athlete IMO. LeBron and MJ are two athletes who had it *all*. I think LeBron, MJ, Deion Sanders, Bo Jackson are like the best all-around athletes I can think of, that I remember seeing.

I’m not against the idea that movement isn’t incredibly important or that MJ in general was a bit better in that regard overall that bron, but I think the 60 pound difference is a big deal here

Jordan from what I can see, came in the league under 200 pounds and was about that range in his first three peat

Bron came in at 245, and hit the low 260s (rumored 274 iirc) in his last years in the first Cleveland stint

Like we’re talking about the weight difference between like, Embiid and westbrook at that point

In terms of their jumps
Per the UNC study, MJs measurements are, rounded up slightly

Standing vert > 36 inches
Max running vert > 46 inches
Max vert with ball > 42 inches

Again, it’s pretty important to say that the max vert a are off a running start, nba combine verts are measured off a 15 foot approach, which usually ends up being 2.5 steps (for a two foot jump, it’s step, plant, takeoff, for a one foot jump, it’s a lunge start, step, takeoff).

For example, lavine is a one foot jumper and only had a 41 inch max vert, but in team testing adding one more step (so 3 full steps) brought it up to 46 inches.

In terms of young bron, this would be thre closest comparison since this is high school bron

Watch on YouTube

;t=225s&pp=ygUTTGVicm9uIGR1bmsgY29udGVzdA%3D%3D


At 3:39, he does a self oop, if you try to pause right before he flushes it, he got about half his head above the rim

He was 6ft7 barefoot (this was March, he measured 6ft7.25 barefoot in the combine and obv he grew afterwards), so probably 6ft8 in shoes, so it’s 40 inches for him to get his head at the rim, and I think it’s pretty easy to say even being conservative he probably got more than a few inches or more above the rim.

Of course, it’s off a self alley oop too, so his real max vert would be a lot higher.

There’s a video called bron highest jump ever, it’s not necessarily equivalent to what his max vert would be because he was a bit crooked and of course jumping to get the ball is different from jumping to reach a highest point, but the approach is closer to a max jump.

Watch on YouTube

Again, in game so the angles aren’t gonna be perfect, but given his head is above the rim at least and he’s leaning to the right with his head turned to the left, you’re probably looking at somewhere in the mid 40s as well.

There’s a layup against Boston somewhere that’s on Instagram, the angle is a bit odd but it would be surprising if he wasnt a few inches above the rim there either

https://m.facebook.com/the.buzz.nba/photos/a.433893786718070/5601334096640654/?type=3

Of course we’re talking about only a few inches here but I’d be really surprised if brons absolute max vert wasn’t in the upper 40s in those early Cleveland years


Jordan’s max vert was measured as his one foot, based on how the study was titled “Jordan vertical jump” I’d have to assume his vert was higher off one (which makes sense of course)

Jordan didn’t need to have that much speed to get up really high, but I’d wager bron had a higher max vert.

Standing vert, we don’t have any measurement for bron a 36 is solid, but if just be suprised if bron wasn’t at least close to that. 36 is a pretty fantastic mark but it’s more like, a typical best of draft class mark rather than an outlier


Jordan’s vert:
https://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.1999.29.1.A1

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Go to PO-30



For the most part, I think his Jordan probably had a bit of an edge in first step and a bigger one in deceleration/mobility, but I find brons attributes in this regard far more impressive given the strength difference. I think had it been 10-20 pounds I would lean jordan, but we’re talking about A guy heavier than a center vs a guy lighter than most shooting guards, jordan from what I found was 200 pounds earlier in his career, whereas if you go to 2009 bron weight it’ll generally be 260-270 with the measurement rumored to be 274. He’s closer to weight to rookie Shaq than to jordan lol

[1993Playoffs]

Don’t think MJ was as athletic as 09 and 10 Lebron imo. And 16-20 Lebron. Is more athletic than older MJ imo