Nique replaces Worthy for Lakers

[durantbird]

How would the Lakers story unfold if they pick Dominique Wilkins over James Worthy in 82'?

[One_and_Done]

Wilkins was the better player certainly. I suppose you could argue Worthy was the better fit.

[penbeast0]

Wilkins was the better player certainly. I suppose you could argue Worthy was the better fit.

Wilkins was the flashier and more featured player, Worthy was better. Why?

(a) Playoff Efficiency -- Worthy .559 RS ts%, Wilkins .536 which could be explained away by teammates and usage but this difference explodes to .578 v. .510 in the playoffs which is a massive difference for two guys known primarily for shooting, particularly for finishing.

(b) Defense -- Worthy was a good defender, Wilkins was voted by his peers (other players) in a Sporting News article as the player who cared least about defense in the league.

I enjoyed Nique's highlights and he was consistent for a lot of years and seemed to be a genuine good person to be around but I'd take Worthy for career.

Not sure why the fit would favor Worthy as the Lakers played Worthy mainly on the wing where Nique would be the better fit rather than at PF where Worthy would be. Both liked to drive or set up in the midpost for a quick interior move despite Kareem and Magic both being more interior players as well. It was Nique who had Mookie around as an early 3 and D PG providing spacing though Byron Scott did some of that.

[70sFan]

Wilkins was the better player certainly. I suppose you could argue Worthy was the better fit.

What makes him a better player?

[prolific passer]

Worthy fit the Lakers team oriented system but you have to wonder how better they would have been if they had a guy like Nique to put up 25+ppg with that team. Especially with an older/retired Kareem.

Worthy was also a weak rebounder for being 6'9".

[homecourtloss]

Wilkins was the better player certainly. I suppose you could argue Worthy was the better fit.

Wilkins was the flashier and more featured player, Worthy was better. Why?

(a) Playoff Efficiency -- Worthy .559 RS ts%, Wilkins .536 which could be explained away by teammates and usage but this difference explodes to .578 v. .510 in the playoffs which is a massive difference for two guys known primarily for shooting, particularly for finishing.

(b) Defense -- Worthy was a good defender, Wilkins was voted by his peers (other players) in a Sporting News article as the player who cared least about defense in the league.

I enjoyed Nique's highlights and he was consistent for a lot of years and seemed to be a genuine good person to be around but I'd take Worthy for career.

Not sure why the fit would favor Worthy as the Lakers played Worthy mainly on the wing where Nique would be the better fit rather than at PF where Worthy would be. Both liked to drive or set up in the midpost for a quick interior move despite Kareem and Magic both being more interior players as well. It was Nique who had Mookie around as an early 3 and D PG providing spacing though Byron Scott did some of that.

I generally agree with the overall tenor of this post, but about the bolded, I would disagree. At his very best, (optimistically) James worthy was perhaps a neutral defender, and even about that I’m not so sure. He wasn’t a good defensive rebounder and the Lakers during their run, or a middling, defensive rebounding team, and only got better towards the end of the 80s with A.C. Green playing minutes. Kurt Rambis, Kareem, Magic, Green were doing the rebounding work. Worthy wasn’t very good defending out in space, didn’t really have a good defensive motor, ball watched the lot.

And, fwiw, the partial but at least a decent amount of possessions DRAPM numbers we have from Squared2020 paint him as a terrible defender.

[Djoker]

Wilkins was the better player certainly. I suppose you could argue Worthy was the better fit.

Wilkins was the flashier and more featured player, Worthy was better. Why?

(a) Playoff Efficiency -- Worthy .559 RS ts%, Wilkins .536 which could be explained away by teammates and usage but this difference explodes to .578 v. .510 in the playoffs which is a massive difference for two guys known primarily for shooting, particularly for finishing.

(b) Defense -- Worthy was a good defender, Wilkins was voted by his peers (other players) in a Sporting News article as the player who cared least about defense in the league.

I enjoyed Nique's highlights and he was consistent for a lot of years and seemed to be a genuine good person to be around but I'd take Worthy for career.

Not sure why the fit would favor Worthy as the Lakers played Worthy mainly on the wing where Nique would be the better fit rather than at PF where Worthy would be. Both liked to drive or set up in the midpost for a quick interior move despite Kareem and Magic both being more interior players as well. It was Nique who had Mookie around as an early 3 and D PG providing spacing though Byron Scott did some of that.

Nique's efficiency would explode alongside Magic though. Imagine Showtime with Nique!

The answer to this thread is at least on paper, the Lakers improve. I have little doubt that Nique was better than Worthy.

[penbeast0]

I had Worthy for his time as a decent defender, though you are correct that his rebounding was poor, especially for his size and game. He had good size and physical tools defensively and could defend inside as well as on the floor, important in this era of the great scoring 3's, all of whom had strong inside out games except Chris Mullin (Bird, English, Dantley, King, Nique, Aguirre), plus his lateral movement always looked decent to me as did his effort.

To be fair, my memories of him are mainly from Lakers playoff games rather than regular season and there is often an effort disconnect between the two.

[MiamiBulls]

Wilkins was the better player certainly. I suppose you could argue Worthy was the better fit.

Wilkins was the flashier and more featured player, Worthy was better. Why?

(a) Playoff Efficiency -- Worthy .559 RS ts%, Wilkins .536 which could be explained away by teammates and usage but this difference explodes to .578 v. .510 in the playoffs which is a massive difference for two guys known primarily for shooting, particularly for finishing.

(b) Defense -- Worthy was a good defender, Wilkins was voted by his peers (other players) in a Sporting News article as the player who cared least about defense in the league.

The gap in their Efficiency isn't as large as their Raw True Shooting would suggest.

James Worthy in his last 5 Seasons as an All-Star where he was more of a no.1 scoring option Worthy averaged:

1988 - 1992 5yr Scoring
20.6ppg/75 on +1.9% rTS

Dominique Wilkins from 1987 to 1991 averaged: 27ppg/75 on +0.6% rTS.

During that stretch the Atlanta Hawks had the 4th Best Offense in 1987, the 5th Best Offense in 1988, the 4th Best Offense in 1989, the 4th Best Offense in 1990, the 8th Best Offense in 1991. Wilkins had excellent Turnover economy with just an 8.9% Turnover Rate in that 5yr stretch.

Also the '80s Lakers perpetually played a lot of bad teams in the Playoffs, specifically bad defensive teams in the Postseason.

Worthy as a clear no.1 scoring option (4yrs: 1988-1991) in the Playoffs averaged 22ppg/75 on +2.7% Defense Adjusted rTS; which is good scoring, but isn't anything to write home about.

Dominique Wilkins from the 1987 - 1991 Playoffs averaged 27ppg/75 on -2% Defense Adjusted rTS, but during that 4 Postseason Stretch he had excellent Turnover economy 8.6% Turnover Rate on 33% Usage. The Atlanta Hawks were a very strong Playoff Offense w/+5.2 Offense against their Defensive Opponents during that 4yr Playoffs stretch.

Wilkins is likely malleable Defensively, seeing that he played on the 6th Best Defense in 1986 & the 2nd Best Defense in 1987. Wilkins isn't exactly a catastrophically poor defender.

IMO, saying James Worthy is better than Dominique Wilkins is like saying Klay Thompson was better than Carmelo Anthony, which imo isn't the case for either.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think roughly the same re how things play out. Nique would not be a 30ppg gunner on those Laker teams. The offense would still run through Kareem in the half court up until 88, Scott would need his shots and Nique would be forced to play the same role that James played. Similar ppg imo while excelling in the fast break.

[prolific passer]

Just imagine the alley oops between Magic and Nique.

[tsherkin]

Nique was more athletic than Worthy. If his mentality/ego let him fill his role well alongside Magic and Kareem, then he would have scored more efficiently for LA than he did in Atlanta. He was overrated heavily because he was exciting to watch and put up high PPG, but he wasn't actually a particularly hot first option scorer for much of his career. Definitely a downgrade defensively.

I don't remember hearing much about him having a problem sharing the ball, just not being a particularly good passer. Worthy was definitely a more savvy player and certainly better defensively than Nique, so it's hard to get a grip on the trade-off. LA didn't lose a lot of games because of scoring failures, so I'm not really sure that Nique looks like an upgrade to me. I imagine they tread water or look a little worse, personally.

[homecourtloss]

Wilkins was the better player certainly. I suppose you could argue Worthy was the better fit.

Wilkins was the flashier and more featured player, Worthy was better. Why?

(a) Playoff Efficiency -- Worthy .559 RS ts%, Wilkins .536 which could be explained away by teammates and usage but this difference explodes to .578 v. .510 in the playoffs which is a massive difference for two guys known primarily for shooting, particularly for finishing.

(b) Defense -- Worthy was a good defender, Wilkins was voted by his peers (other players) in a Sporting News article as the player who cared least about defense in the league.

I enjoyed Nique's highlights and he was consistent for a lot of years and seemed to be a genuine good person to be around but I'd take Worthy for career.

Not sure why the fit would favor Worthy as the Lakers played Worthy mainly on the wing where Nique would be the better fit rather than at PF where Worthy would be. Both liked to drive or set up in the midpost for a quick interior move despite Kareem and Magic both being more interior players as well. It was Nique who had Mookie around as an early 3 and D PG providing spacing though Byron Scott did some of that.

Nique's efficiency would explode alongside Magic though. Imagine Showtime with Nique!

The answer to this thread is at least on paper, the Lakers improve. I have little doubt that Nique was better than Worthy.

It’s actually interesting, because this was a debate at the time since the Lakers had a chance to drafting both players. It’s unlikely that the Lakers offense gets better with Wilkins, because even though Wilkins’s efficiency would increase on the fast break the half court offense Wilkins possessed was not as good as the post up game the Big Game James Worthy possessed who was himself an excellent finisher on the first break. The defense probably gets worse, and the office doesn’t improve and actually probably gets worse because I would rather have James worthy and a half court than Dominique and on the first break, it’s pretty much a wash.

[One_and_Done]

Terry Cummings might have been a good fit too.

Early on Worthy struggled to adjust to the NBA and actually lost his spot to Rambis

[wojoaderge]

Terry Cummings might have been a good fit too.

Early on Worthy struggled to adjust to the NBA and actually lost his spot to Rambis

Rambis started 77 of 78 games, Wilkes 80 of 80

[One_and_Done]

That's literally what I just said.

[wojoaderge]

That's literally what I just said.

No, Worthy was behind them from the start

[One_and_Done]

Read Showtime. The front office expected Worthy, as the #1 pick, to start. Rambis outplayed him so badlt in training camp and preseason they pulled the plug on that idea.

[prolific passer]

Idk about the whole defense would be worse as the Hawks during their 50 win streak for those years had a top 10 defensive rating and top 10 opposing teams scoring average.

[tsherkin]

Idk about the whole defense would be worse as the Hawks during their 50 win streak for those years had a top 10 defensive rating and top 10 opposing teams scoring average.

Really? With 1 season between than -1.6 rDRTG, and that season marked by a pretty good frontcourt and solid roleplayers all around? That's the idea behind supporting that the Lakers wouldn't look at least a little worse on D with Nique instead of Worthy?