How many NBA players were as “good” / “accomplished” as Mahomes at age 28 - relative to sport

rk2023 · Post #1 » by **rk2023** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:17 pm

https://x.com/nfl/status/1703405433258442924?s=46&t=_HOjrsiLtTYaVpOZxyl7Iw

Thread title here speaks for itself. For my $.02, Mahomes has a great case as the best 5-year peak across all QBs in NFL history with a resume that seems to be 1:1 leading up to their age 28 season. So with that, the thread question speaks for itself.

My answer would be -
Russell, Kareem, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, James

Colbinii · Post #2 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:35 pm

None of them.

AEnigma · Post #3 » by **AEnigma** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:18 pm

For “two MVPs + two titles,” only Duncan and Russell can match résumés, although Kareem and Lebron would be next up with three MVPs and a title, as well as Magic with one MVP and three titles.

Wigginstime · Post #4 » by **Wigginstime** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:57 pm

Jokic is close at 2 MPVs and 1 Title at 28

Post #5 » by **Texas Chuck** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:42 pm

Russell and Duncan for sure. Russell surpasses him honestly. And I think Magic is a really good comp for him. Where style of play makes him more beloved even than his accomplishments and there is of course tons of substance to back up the style.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #6 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:51 pm

AEnigma wrote:For “two MVPs + two titles,” only Duncan and Russell can match résumés, although Kareem and Lebron would be next up with three MVPs and a title, as well as Magic with one MVP and three titles.

Bird was still 28 when he had 2 mvps/2 rings. LeBron was also only 28 when he had 4 mvps/2 rings. Both turned 29 during the next season(86/14).

AEnigma · Post #7 » by **AEnigma** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:57 pm

I am aware, but Mahomes literally just turned 28, so I did not want to include incomplete seasons to account for the possibility that Mahomes repeats.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #8 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:59 pm

AEnigma wrote:I am aware, but Mahomes literally just turned 28, so I did not want to include incomplete seasons to account for the possibility that Mahomes repeats.

Ya I see op stipulates before age 28 season. Having said that, I'm not quite as impressed with Mahomes as some are. I mean he's definitely done enough to put him into position to challenge for being a top 3-4 qb of all time but I think passing numbers today are like comparing 3 pt shooting now compared to 30 years ago.

Colbinii · Post #9 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:16 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
AEnigma wrote:I am aware, but Mahomes literally just turned 28, so I did not want to include incomplete seasons to account for the possibility that Mahomes repeats.

Ya I see op stipulates before age 28 season. Having said that, I'm not quite as impressed with Mahomes as some are. I mean he's definitely done enough to put him into position to challenge for being a top 3-4 qb of all time but I think passing numbers today are like comparing 3 pt shooting now compared to 30 years ago.

I have never seen someone cite Mahomes passing numbers besides this thread as a barometer for his greatness.

He is a more athletic Aaron Rodgers who plays up-to Tom Brady+ levels in the post-season. There really is no comparison.

rk2023 · Post #10 » by **rk2023** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 10:54 pm

I would say Mahomes is GOAT level already (akin to LBJ, Mike, Kareem, Russ) - while Duncan and Magic certainly have team-specific impact and value that I'd say are not too far apart without even mentioning the MVPs / Titles / amazing P/M statistical profiles in their favors.

For QB careers, Brady is my 1 and Manning is a clear 2nd for me - where my guess is Mahomes can get to #1 in my rankings when it's all said and done - and would be a top 4 QB with even ~5 seasons more at his current level of play.

RE: passing stats at face value used. Amongst most nuanced NFL voices that I follow (there are a fair share of casual fans across any sport whom probably will look at volume stats) like Kevin Cole / Mina Kimes / Ringer's NFL team / Thinking Football / various statisticians, a lot of good arguments in Mahomes' favor are much more detailed than that of his smaller highlight reels and face value stats. In more granular metrics like QBR, EPA, Era Adjusted Elo Rating, Amazon's Next Gen passing models, etc.. he looks amazing. I'd say a holistic film study yields the same impression for me, where he has gotten a fair share better / come a long way playing in the pocket (which is a major blueprint in aging your game well). While this isn't the prettiest style of playing while watching multiple drop-backs, Mahomes' improv and extra-scramble-time offense has proven to be resilient and a unique way of exploiting defenses / getting less-proficient skill positions involved - by giving them extra separation and allowing for defensive breakdowns to be more likely exposed. I think that's a decent explaining factor as to why KC's team offenses in the PS have translated obscenely well from 2018-22.

HeartBreakKid · Post #11 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:23 pm

Kareem, I would think. He was arguably the best player before he had even joined the NBA. Had a ring and 4 MVPs already.

I suppose Bill Russell fits that criteria as well.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #12 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:57 am

Colbinii wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
AEnigma wrote:I am aware, but Mahomes literally just turned 28, so I did not want to include incomplete seasons to account for the possibility that Mahomes repeats.

Ya I see op stipulates before age 28 season. Having said that, I'm not quite as impressed with Mahomes as some are. I mean he's definitely done enough to put him into position to challenge for being a top 3-4 qb of all time but I think passing numbers today are like comparing 3 pt shooting now compared to 30 years ago.

I have never seen someone cite Mahomes passing numbers besides this thread as a barometer for his greatness.

He is a more athletic Aaron Rodgers who plays up-to Tom Brady+ levels in the post-season. There really is no comparison.

Mahomes might have more feel for scrambling but I don't know about him being more athletic. https://youtu.be/i5-c9qscDpk?si=vGyJe8vYj_x0XcyT

Rodgers has a better 40 time and acceleration.

MyUniBroDavis · Post #13 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:16 am

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Ya I see op stipulates before age 28 season. Having said that, I'm not quite as impressed with Mahomes as some are. I mean he's definitely done enough to put him into position to challenge for being a top 3-4 qb of all time but I think passing numbers today are like comparing 3 pt shooting now compared to 30 years ago.

I have never seen someone cite Mahomes passing numbers besides this thread as a barometer for his greatness.

He is a more athletic Aaron Rodgers who plays up-to Tom Brady+ levels in the post-season. There really is no comparison.

Mahomes might have more feel for scrambling but I don't know about him being more athletic. https://youtu.be/i5-c9qscDpk?si=vGyJe8vYj_x0XcyT

Rodgers has a better 40 time and acceleration.

Have u seen the dude play basketball :lol:

xb3at band1tx · Post #14 » by **xb3at band1tx** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:56 am

Magic Johnson pre-MJ 3-peat

Jaivl · Post #15 » by **Jaivl** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:05 am

2 titles & MVPs, dominating a national league? Luka Doncic and Manu Ginóbili did that way before 28

Colbinii · Post #16 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:46 pm

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Ya I see op stipulates before age 28 season. Having said that, I'm not quite as impressed with Mahomes as some are. I mean he's definitely done enough to put him into position to challenge for being a top 3-4 qb of all time but I think passing numbers today are like comparing 3 pt shooting now compared to 30 years ago.

I have never seen someone cite Mahomes passing numbers besides this thread as a barometer for his greatness.

He is a more athletic Aaron Rodgers who plays up-to Tom Brady+ levels in the post-season. There really is no comparison.

Mahomes might have more feel for scrambling but I don't know about him being more athletic. https://youtu.be/i5-c9qscDpk?si=vGyJe8vYj_x0XcyT

Rodgers has a better 40 time and acceleration.

I don't equate straight line running to athleticism.

Franco · Post #17 » by **Franco** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:42 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Russell and Duncan for sure. Russell surpasses him honestly. And I think Magic is a really good comp for him. Where style of play makes him more beloved even than his accomplishments and there is of course tons of substance to back up the style.

Magic has the success, but Mahomes was arguably the best player in the NBA the moment he set foot on the turf as a starter. Honestly the best comparison might be Kareem with the instant success + level of play?

AdagioPace · Post #18 » by **AdagioPace** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:23 pm

Jaivl wrote:2 titles & MVPs, dominating a national league? Luka Doncic and Manu Ginóbili did that way before 28

/thread
you sir are going to wake up all the McCarthysm in this forum. Felicidades

LukaTheGOAT · Post #19 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:24 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
LukaTheGOAT wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
I have never seen someone cite Mahomes passing numbers besides this thread as a barometer for his greatness.

He is a more athletic Aaron Rodgers who plays up-to Tom Brady+ levels in the post-season. There really is no comparison.

Mahomes might have more feel for scrambling but I don't know about him being more athletic. https://youtu.be/i5-c9qscDpk?si=vGyJe8vYj_x0XcyT

Rodgers has a better 40 time and acceleration.

Have u seen the dude play basketball

No, but I am guessing I shouldn't lol

Colbinii · Post #20 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:50 pm

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
LukaTheGOAT wrote:
Mahomes might have more feel for scrambling but I don't know about him being more athletic. https://youtu.be/i5-c9qscDpk?si=vGyJe8vYj_x0XcyT

Rodgers has a better 40 time and acceleration.

Have u seen the dude play basketball

No, but I am guessing I shouldn't lol

He is actually super good at Basketball.