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Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:13 am**

This is not the way to compare stats. Try comparing prime to prime per 100 adjusted. In any event, you can't compare an MVP like Wade to a fringe all-nba guy like Stockton (and today he isn't even that).

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:51 am**

I'd take a lot of guys with multiple All-NBA level seasons and sustained excellence over the likes of MVP Derrick Rose for example. The argument you make has never been a good one and repeating every single thread that mentions Stockton in any way doesn't make it stronger.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:58 am**

I do not see analogising Wade’s career to Rose’s as an especially good or serious argument either.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:10 am**

I'm just here to present the stats.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:20 am**

One_and_Done wrote:Try comparing prime to prime per 100 adjusted.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:26 am**

SHAQ32 wrote:I'm just here to present the stats.

Meaning what exactly? Prime Wade was on a different tier than Stockton and could carry teams on his back.

Would help if you gave some context of what your point is instead of just posting some random numbers.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:37 am**

SHAQ32 wrote:I'm just here to present the stats.

But why are you doing that?

We can all go on Basketball-reference.com and compare the stats. If this is what this board is turning into then we all need to ask ourselves "How did we get here"?

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:13 am**

Stockton would be a good 2nd or 3rd option for a prime Wade.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:26 am**

1993Playoffs wrote:Stockton would be a good 2nd or 3rd option for a prime Wade.

I'd prefer someone who has more versatility to their game. Wade is an alpha, heliocentric player when used optimally. Does he really need an old school point guard trying to pound the rock till he can lob it in? Yeh, Stockton can hit an open 3 after Wade draws in the D, but so can alot of role players.

Wade is better off with either another alpha who compliments him (e.g. A.Davis), a versatile Robin (e.g. Pippen), or a big who can roll and protect the rim (e.g. Gilmore, Gobert, Bam). I'm not sure he wouldn't be better off with Webber or Sheed tbh.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:33 am**

PaulieWal wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:I'm just here to present the stats.

Meaning what exactly? Prime Wade was on a different tier than Stockton and could carry teams on his back.

Would help if you gave some context of what your point is instead of just posting some random numbers.

Somehow this dense, baseless post got four upvotes. I think we know what your agenda is here.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:52 am**

SHAQ32 wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:I'm just here to present the stats.

Meaning what exactly? Prime Wade was on a different tier than Stockton and could carry teams on his back.

Would help if you gave some context of what your point is instead of just posting some random numbers.

Somehow this dense, baseless post got four upvotes. I think we know what your agenda is here.

It ain’t an agenda it’s just reality unfortunately lmao

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:19 am**

Colbinii wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:I'm just here to present the stats.

But why are you doing that?

We can all go on Basketball-reference.com and compare the stats. If this is what this board is turning into then we all need to ask ourselves "How did we get here"?

was the board of the good old days above posting bbr slashlines?

PaulieWal wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:I'm just here to present the stats.

Meaning what exactly? Prime Wade was on a different tier than Stockton and could carry teams on his back.

Then it's probably worth considering why the slashlines alot of people are comfortable making player judegments on are misleading here, no?

(and what that means when we use those stats in other comparisons...)

Posted: **Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:52 am**

Wade had the most help.

What would Stockton do with
Shaq, Zo, Payton, a myriad of fringe all-stars
Or
LeBron, Bosh, Allen, Battier, Miller, Lewis …
+
no MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Longley, Harper, Kerr to go against 06 Mavs, 12 baby Thunder

Posted: **Mon Sep 25, 2023 4:23 am**

One_and_Done wrote:
1993Playoffs wrote:Stockton would be a good 2nd or 3rd option for a prime Wade.

I'd prefer someone who has more versatility to their game. Wade is an alpha, heliocentric player when used optimally. Does he really need an old school point guard trying to pound the rock till he can lob it in? Yeh, Stockton can hit an open 3 after Wade draws in the D, but so can alot of role players.

Wade is better off with either another alpha who compliments him (e.g. A.Davis), a versatile Robin (e.g. Pippen), or a big who can roll and protect the rim (e.g. Gilmore, Gobert, Bam). I'm not sure he wouldn't be better off with Webber or Sheed tbh.

Generally, a ball dominant 2 like Wade is better off with a big rather than another ball dominant guard, even if that guard is a great outside shooter and someone who is better creating offense for others with the ball in his hands than Wade was. On the other hand, we saw Harden and Paul succeed in Houston and Harden is even more ball dominant than Wade while Paul is more the pound the rock, slow the game PG than Stockton who liked to fast break.

I would say Webber and Sheed, at the least, are enough of a significant cut below Stockton, particularly Webber, that positional synergy isn't going to come close to covering it.

I would also say that all the above named players would be better with Stockton as their main guard than Wade. Davis, Bam, and Webber would see more opportunities to maximize their talents and Gilmore and Gobert would be in the low post clogging the paint when Wade did his drives to the hole. Could any of them work well? Absolutely. Wade won a title with Shaq. Would they all be better off with a Stockton type assuming the overall talent/impact is similar (which both you and I don't think it is, just in the opposite directions), all except possibly Rasheed and Pippen who are the Robin types who play well off a dominant scorer and even Rasheed won his title without that dominant scorer.

Posted: **Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:34 am**

LakersLegacy wrote:Wade had the most help.

What would Stockton do with
Shaq, Zo, Payton, a myriad of fringe all-stars

"Shaq", "Zo", "Payton"

Posted: **Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:27 am**

penbeast0 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
1993Playoffs wrote:Stockton would be a good 2nd or 3rd option for a prime Wade.

I'd prefer someone who has more versatility to their game. Wade is an alpha, heliocentric player when used optimally. Does he really need an old school point guard trying to pound the rock till he can lob it in? Yeh, Stockton can hit an open 3 after Wade draws in the D, but so can alot of role players.

Wade is better off with either another alpha who compliments him (e.g. A.Davis), a versatile Robin (e.g. Pippen), or a big who can roll and protect the rim (e.g. Gilmore, Gobert, Bam). I'm not sure he wouldn't be better off with Webber or Sheed tbh.

Generally, a ball dominant 2 like Wade is better off with a big rather than another ball dominant guard, even if that guard is a great outside shooter and someone who is better creating offense for others with the ball in his hands than Wade was. On the other hand, we saw Harden and Paul succeed in Houston and Harden is even more ball dominant than Wade while Paul is more the pound the rock, slow the game PG than Stockton who liked to fast break.

I would say Webber and Sheed, at the least, are enough of a significant cut below Stockton, particularly Webber, that positional synergy isn't going to come close to covering it.

I would also say that all the above named players would be better with Stockton as their main guard than Wade. Davis, Bam, and Webber would see more opportunities to maximize their talents and Gilmore and Gobert would be in the low post clogging the paint when Wade did his drives to the hole. Could any of them work well? Absolutely. Wade won a title with Shaq. Would they all be better off with a Stockton type assuming the overall talent/impact is similar (which both you and I don't think it is, just in the opposite directions), all except possibly Rasheed and Pippen who are the Robin types who play well off a dominant scorer and even Rasheed won his title without that dominant scorer.

We disagree. Stockton IMO is a similar calibre of talent to Sheed or Webber, and that's generous to him.

Posted: **Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:08 pm**

One_and_Done wrote:We disagree. Stockton IMO is a similar calibre of talent to Sheed or Webber, and that's generous to him.

That seems off by a lot. Basically nothing shows Webber looking particularly impressive from an offensive standpoint, no? He was a nice passer, but he wasn't a particularly efficient volume scorer, and tailed off as an offensive rebounder after a couple seasons. He had a little peak in Sacramento, but looked more like minutes/usage-driven box score totals/averages more than anything else. Stockton at least was good in the role he filled, whatever one's opinion of his overall impact on team offense once you separate out his credited assists where he did almost nothing to generate the shot. And he as an efficient scorer, he just didn't scale up well in the playoffs. Webber was inefficient the bulk of his career, mid in most of his decent seasons, and dogcrap in the playoffs.

Sheed was a good player who filled a lower-usage role very well. No flashy numbers, but he did little things that were good. Maybe that's what you mean when you equate the two? Because Sheed was very effective at what he did, he just couldn't lift a whole offense on his own and wasn't a takeover scorer in the playoffs.

Posted: **Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:24 pm**

LakersLegacy wrote:Wade had the most help.

What would Stockton do with
Shaq, Zo, Payton, a myriad of fringe all-stars
O

What would he do with a bunch of players way past their prime? Probably lose.

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Stockton vs Wade, basic stats comparison

Stockton vs Wade, basic stats comparison

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