RealGM

Who is the best defensive SG of all time?

My answer is West, he looks really capable on tape and has a fantastic reputation. He struggled a bit against Oscar, but I don't think thats much of an indictment on his defense, as Oscar was a phenomenal offensive player and much bigger than Jerry.

For one game when he is laser locked in, Jordan (hm West). For short stretches of high energy in a game, maybe Tony Allen (or Michael Cooper). For consistent night in, night out defense v. weak teams and strong, probably Sidney Moncrief (or Bruce Bowen).

I don't consider West a SG since that isn't where he played during most of his career,

Probably Moncrief or Jordan. Wade and Manu need removing. Nowhere in RealWorld are they considered better than Kobe, who somehow isn't listed.

Laimbeer wrote:Probably Moncrief or Jordan. Wade and Manu need removing. Nowhere in RealWorld are they considered better than Kobe, who somehow isn't listed.

Kobe doesn't belong in this discussion either, of course.

tsherkin wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:Probably Moncrief or Jordan. Wade and Manu need removing. Nowhere in RealWorld are they considered better than Kobe, who somehow isn't listed.

Kobe doesn't belong in this discussion either, of course.

Does 96-98 MJ?

Not the kind of question you should poll. Early to mid 10's Danny Green is at least a tier up on Jordan defensively, and most of the list you have for that matter.

Wade wasn't a better defender than almost any version of Victor Oladipo.

Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant both say Tony Allen was their hardest defender.

“Tony Allen, that’s easy,” said Bryant when asked about who the toughest defender was. “He was the only one who wasn’t crying for help. Tony Allen would play straight up, he’d be physical, I could score 10-straight and he’d still be there, still being physical, not backing down. Tony Allen by far.” (Kobe circa 2018)

“My game was always free-flowing, I’m out there just playing. Ball comes to me. I'm gonna shoot it, get in the lane, I'm gonna go. He (Allen) was cutting s*** off, denying the ball from me, got into my pocket. So I needed to find different setups, I started working on preparation before I catch the ball, just small parts of the game, I felt like he was teaching me that little s***.” Durant stated.

“He was so f****** good, he was a master at playing defense, you don’t understand how great he was at playing defense.” Durant concluded. (KD earlier this year).

Steph Curry names him in his Top 3 toughest.

“There’s a group of three that always ... the lightbulb went off when they were on the court,” said Curry. “It’s Jrue Holiday, Tony Allen, and Ron Artest, actually. I didn’t get to play too many games against [Artest], but he had the strongest hands you’ve ever seen in your life.” (Curry a couple months ago)

3 of the greatest perimeter players of all-time. With completely different offensive styles. Covering 27+ years of time (4 MVPs, 5 Finals MVPs, 11 titles). All 3 admit Allen was the absolute man.

The advanced defensive metrics and eye test both back up the fact that Allen was ridiculous on defense.

1993Playoffs wrote:
Does 96-98 MJ?

No. That's not relevant in any way to my point, but no, he doesn't.

I went with Tony Allen. He has some very impressive impact signatures across multiple years and while Jordan peaked the highest defensively imo, he didn't have the same consistent defensive impact throughout his career.

I like Coop and Allen the most. Maybe I forgot about someone though, Caruso is spectacular as well.

O_6 wrote:Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant both say Tony Allen was their hardest defender.

Jordan himself would probably name Joe Dumars

tsherkin wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:Probably Moncrief or Jordan. Wade and Manu need removing. Nowhere in RealWorld are they considered better than Kobe, who somehow isn't listed.

Kobe doesn't belong in this discussion either, of course.

Is Wade really unworthy? He's commonly referred to as the best shot blocking guard ever. Assuming that is warranted - and maybe it isn't - that must count for something

Gervin is another candidate for one of the best shot blocking guards of all time, as well as being known for a James Harden caliber disinterest in focusing on the defensive end. It's not enough, though Wade was a very good defensive guard.

henshao wrote:

O_6 wrote:Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant both say Tony Allen was their hardest defender.

Jordan himself would probably name Joe Dumars

Jordan has at times named several players, Moncrief, Mitch Richmond, etc. Not sure if he ever named Dumars, I noticed the players he names are all ones that he personally had good numbers against. When he talked about the Pistons defense, it was like Wilt talking about the Celtics. He would talk about how they would all go after him and double/triple team him rather than the one that guarded him primarily.

penbeast0 wrote:Gervin is another candidate for one of the best shot blocking guards of all time, as well as being known for a James Harden caliber disinterest in focusing on the defensive end. It's not enough, though Wade was a very good defensive guard.

What would be enough then? If I understand the theory of things correctly - wouldn't defending and deterring shots is the most valuable defensive quality?

Being the best at that seems it would be a big help for being the best sg - wasn't wade good or very good at all the other facets?

MrLurker wrote:

tsherkin wrote:

Laimbeer wrote:Probably Moncrief or Jordan. Wade and Manu need removing. Nowhere in RealWorld are they considered better than Kobe, who somehow isn't listed.

Kobe doesn't belong in this discussion either, of course.

Is Wade really unworthy? He's commonly referred to as the best shot blocking guard ever. Assuming that is warranted - and maybe it isn't - that must count for something

He may really be

falcolombardi wrote:

MrLurker wrote:

tsherkin wrote:
Kobe doesn't belong in this discussion either, of course.

Is Wade really unworthy? He's commonly referred to as the best shot blocking guard ever. Assuming that is warranted - and maybe it isn't - that must count for something

He may really be

Man-to-man defense is much more important for a guard. But Wade is not as egregious as Manu. I mean, damn.

Laimbeer wrote:

falcolombardi wrote:

MrLurker wrote:Is Wade really unworthy? He's commonly referred to as the best shot blocking guard ever. Assuming that is warranted - and maybe it isn't - that must count for something

He may really be

Man-to-man defense is much more important for a guard. But Wade is not as egregious as Manu. I mean, damn.

I dont know how much i would agree with that man to man statement

You can be a very good defender without being the best defender of all time. Shot blocking is not a high priority among guards generally though it is a positive, man defense is more important, playing the passing lanes, and disrupting opposing offenses at the point of attack.