RealGM

1. Overall
2. Offense only
3. Defense only

* These could be different seasons if you don't think they peaked offensively and defensively in the same year

This is tough and I need to think about how to rank them but the center position in particular is absolutely stacked historically. Names I have to think about in no particular order are Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Russell, Robinson, Duncan and Garnett off the top of my head.

In terms of peak, I would probably have 2020 as AD's peak and 2021 as Giannis' peak. Those were their best postseasons.

Just post-shot clock
Giannis|AD*
1. 1-2|3-5
2. 2-5|5-9
3. 7-9|5

Ben AN wrote:Just post-shot clock
Giannis|AD*
1. 1-2|3-5
2. 2-5|5-9
3. 7-9|5

Wow you are incredibly high on both these guys but especially Giannis.

Ben AN wrote:Just post-shot clock
Giannis|AD*
1. 1-2|3-5
2. 2-5|5-9
3. 7-9|5

Im one of the biggest stans for both of them but this is wild lol

Ben AN wrote:Just post-shot clock
Giannis|AD*
1. 1-2|3-5
2. 2-5|5-9
3. 7-9|5

Now that is very bold.

I forgot Ben Wallace, so 8-10 and 5-6 for #3.

Ben AN wrote:I forgot Ben Wallace, so 8-10 and 5-6 for #3.

Do you have Mutombo ahead but not Gobert defensively? What about Bam, Draymond and Gasol?

Ben AN wrote:Just post-shot clock
Giannis|AD*
1. 1-2|3-5
2. 2-5|5-9
3. 7-9|5

your math does not add up. how can a player rated top 2 but only top 5 in offense and top 9 in defense？

cpower wrote:

Ben AN wrote:Just post-shot clock
Giannis|AD*
1. 1-2|3-5
2. 2-5|5-9
3. 7-9|5

your math does not add up. how can a player rated top 2 but only top 5 in offense and top 9 in defense？

Because everyone who is better both offensively or defensively is far worse than Giannis at the other.

Colbinii wrote:

cpower wrote:

Ben AN wrote:Just post-shot clock
Giannis|AD*
1. 1-2|3-5
2. 2-5|5-9
3. 7-9|5

your math does not add up. how can a player rated top 2 but only top 5 in offense and top 9 in defense？

Because everyone who is better both offensively or defensively is far worse than Giannis at the other.

i cant see it. if you are GOAT you will be almost at top of the list on both side, i also cant see a 3.5/8 ranked player being GOAT

Colbinii wrote:

Ben AN wrote:I forgot Ben Wallace, so 8-10 and 5-6 for #3.

Do you have Mutombo ahead but not Gobert defensively? What about Bam, Draymond and Gasol?

No, I don't have Mutombo ahead of AD, but it's close between him and Giannis. I'd go with Giannis. As far as the other guys, I view Bam, Dray and Gobert as a tier down for different reasons. Non elite rim protection in the case of Bam/Dray, along with merely above average rebounding from Dray and limited defensive impact in the playoffs due to purely being effective as a rim protector in the pace and space era in Gobert. Gasol's probably only a better option as a post defender compared to AD/Giannis and even that doesn't provide much value, considering the era he played in went away from post offense. I'm not sure if I'd even put him in the Bam/Green tier.

cpower wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

cpower wrote:your math does not add up. how can a player rated top 2 but only top 5 in offense and top 9 in defense？

Because everyone who is better both offensively or defensively is far worse than Giannis at the other.

i cant see it. if you are GOAT you will be almost at top of the list on both side, i also cant see a 3.5/8 ranked player being GOAT

A dude whose the 5th best offensive player ever and the 5th best defensive player ever would absolutely have a strong argument GOAT peak lol, (not talking about centers)

Not saying it’s where I have Giannis, but still

Ben AN wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

Ben AN wrote:I forgot Ben Wallace, so 8-10 and 5-6 for #3.

Do you have Mutombo ahead but not Gobert defensively? What about Bam, Draymond and Gasol?

No, I don't have Mutombo ahead of AD, but it's close between him and Giannis. I'd go with Giannis. As far as the other guys, I view Bam, Dray and Gobert as a tier down for different reasons. Non elite rim protection in the case of Bam/Dray, along with merely above average rebounding from Dray and limited defensive impact in the playoffs due to purely being effective as a rim protector in the pace and space era in Gobert. Gasol's probably only a better option as a post defender compared to AD/Giannis and even that doesn't provide much value, considering the era he played in went away from post offense. I'm not sure if I'd even put him in the Bam/Green tier.

Interesting. I don't see a single argument for Giannis as being a better defender than Draymond.

Draymond is better at switches. He is a better anchor. He is better at positioning. He is a better post defender. He is better defending in space and on the perimeter. He is better at using his body and lower body strength.

I actually can't think of a single reason why I would prefer Giannis to Draymond defensively.

Colbinii wrote:

Ben AN wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
Do you have Mutombo ahead but not Gobert defensively? What about Bam, Draymond and Gasol?

No, I don't have Mutombo ahead of AD, but it's close between him and Giannis. I'd go with Giannis. As far as the other guys, I view Bam, Dray and Gobert as a tier down for different reasons. Non elite rim protection in the case of Bam/Dray, along with merely above average rebounding from Dray and limited defensive impact in the playoffs due to purely being effective as a rim protector in the pace and space era in Gobert. Gasol's probably only a better option as a post defender compared to AD/Giannis and even that doesn't provide much value, considering the era he played in went away from post offense. I'm not sure if I'd even put him in the Bam/Green tier.

Interesting. I don't see a single argument for Giannis as being a better defender than Draymond.

Draymond is better at switches. He is a better anchor. He is better at positioning. He is a better post defender. He is better defending in space and on the perimeter. He is better at using his body and lower body strength.

I actually can't think of a single reason why I would prefer Giannis to Draymond defensively.

I think Giannis is a better defensive rebounder and could be slightly better weakside shotblocker, but that's not enough to put him ahead of Dray.

70sFan wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

Ben AN wrote:No, I don't have Mutombo ahead of AD, but it's close between him and Giannis. I'd go with Giannis. As far as the other guys, I view Bam, Dray and Gobert as a tier down for different reasons. Non elite rim protection in the case of Bam/Dray, along with merely above average rebounding from Dray and limited defensive impact in the playoffs due to purely being effective as a rim protector in the pace and space era in Gobert. Gasol's probably only a better option as a post defender compared to AD/Giannis and even that doesn't provide much value, considering the era he played in went away from post offense. I'm not sure if I'd even put him in the Bam/Green tier.

Interesting. I don't see a single argument for Giannis as being a better defender than Draymond.

Draymond is better at switches. He is a better anchor. He is better at positioning. He is a better post defender. He is better defending in space and on the perimeter. He is better at using his body and lower body strength.

I actually can't think of a single reason why I would prefer Giannis to Draymond defensively.

I think Giannis is a better defensive rebounder and could be slightly better weakside shotblocker, but that's not enough to put him ahead of Dray.

Good point about DREB. The Bucks [2019-2023] are typically +1%-4% better with Giannis on-court for DREB% than without him. The Warriors for all of Draymonds prime are basically 0% better.

Big man peaks overall, arguable but using the recent peaks list.

1999-00 Shaquille O'Neal
1976-77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1966-67 Wilt Chamberlain
2002-03 Tim Duncan
1993-94 Hakeem Olajuwon
1963-64 Bill Russell
2022-23 Nikola Jokic
2003-04 Kevin Garnett
2020-21 Giannis Antetokounmpo
1976-77 Bill Walton
1993-94 David Robinson
2010-11 Dirk Nowitzki
25. 1982-83 Moses Malone
26. 2019-20 Anthony Davis

It’s hard to see Giannis go above 6-9 range overall.

Anthony Davis could be between 10-14.

Offense only,

Giannis top 5. Behind Shaq, Kareem, Jokic, Dirk.
AD offensively behind Wilt, Hakeem, D Rob, Duncan. So maybe 9-10 at best.

Defensively,

Russell, Hakeem, D Rob, Duncan, KG, Walton

I can see Davis at 7, valuing his versatility.

Then Wilt, Mutombo, Wallace, Thurmond, Ewing, Kareem, Dwight, Giannis.


So let’s go with
Giannis | AD
8 | 13
5 | 10
15| 7

MyUniBroDavis wrote:A dude whose the 5th best offensive player ever and the 5th best defensive player ever would absolutely have a strong argument GOAT peak lol, (not talking about centers)

Not saying it’s where I have Giannis, but still

5th best offensive player ever? It just said "among GOAT big man peaks" in the title, so I gave my ranges for him solely among bigs in the 3 categories.

Ben AN wrote:

MyUniBroDavis wrote:A dude whose the 5th best offensive player ever and the 5th best defensive player ever would absolutely have a strong argument GOAT peak lol, (not talking about centers)

Not saying it’s where I have Giannis, but still

5th best offensive player ever? It just said "among GOAT big man peaks" in the title, so I gave my ranges for him solely among bigs in the 3 categories.

I was responding to the idea that ranking him 1-2 doesn’t make sense if you had him at those ranks, but I realize I quoted the wrong guy, I meant to quote cpower

Colbinii wrote:

Ben AN wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
Do you have Mutombo ahead but not Gobert defensively? What about Bam, Draymond and Gasol?

No, I don't have Mutombo ahead of AD, but it's close between him and Giannis. I'd go with Giannis. As far as the other guys, I view Bam, Dray and Gobert as a tier down for different reasons. Non elite rim protection in the case of Bam/Dray, along with merely above average rebounding from Dray and limited defensive impact in the playoffs due to purely being effective as a rim protector in the pace and space era in Gobert. Gasol's probably only a better option as a post defender compared to AD/Giannis and even that doesn't provide much value, considering the era he played in went away from post offense. I'm not sure if I'd even put him in the Bam/Green tier.

Interesting. I don't see a single argument for Giannis as being a better defender than Draymond.

Draymond is better at switches. He is a better anchor. He is better at positioning. He is a better post defender. He is better defending in space and on the perimeter. He is better at using his body and lower body strength.

I actually can't think of a single reason why I would prefer Giannis to Draymond defensively.

When you say he's better at using his lower body isn't that the same as being the better post defender? Same with positioning being the same as being better at using his body.

For some reasons I'd put Giannis over Draymond, I'd say his ball denial and especially transition defense is certainly better, in conjunction with the other things mentioned above. I also don't see how Draymond is a better anchor when Giannis has led GOAT tier playoff defenses, along with doing that in the regular season in 2020.