Why is kd not a goat candidate??

[Whiffyemperor]

I'm curious on why he isn't apart of the goat candidates in the realgm forum top players of all time.

He has a 2-1 record against lebron who was voted as the number 1 player in this forum.

I'll also like an explanation on all the stats that get thrown out here like darko, scoreval ,playval,Aug+- WOWR etc & how kd fares in this statistical categories

[cpower]

offense: very avg playmaker , don't really make the teammates better, Lebron is one of the GOATs in this.
defense: above avg defender but not nearly as good as Lebron

He is ranked 22nd on the all time list here in RealGM, pretty far away from goat candidate

[1993Playoffs]

Well first you have to play like a GOAT candidate

[itsxtray]

Goat Candidates have to be:

Monster scorer+Defender
Monster scorer+Playmaker
Preferably monster all 3 in their prime or monster at 2 but still very good at #3

Durant was a monster scorer (not as much in the ps) but not a high level defender or playmaker. Not that he was bad at those things in his prime but not good enough to be in the goat convo.

[Colbinii]

I think it is best you can take your own time understanding the statistics you mentioned you want to understand.

[Rishkar]

Goat Candidates have to be:

Monster scorer+Defender
Monster scorer+Playmaker
Preferably monster all 3 in their prime or monster at 2 but still very good at #3

Durant was a monster scorer (not as much in the ps) but not a high level defender or playmaker. Not that he was bad at those things in his prime but not good enough to be in the goat convo.

What about Russell? Monster Defender+Playmaker+Monster Rebounder

[itsxtray]

Goat Candidates have to be:

Monster scorer+Defender
Monster scorer+Playmaker
Preferably monster all 3 in their prime or monster at 2 but still very good at #3

Durant was a monster scorer (not as much in the ps) but not a high level defender or playmaker. Not that he was bad at those things in his prime but not good enough to be in the goat convo.

What about Russell? Monster Defender+Playmaker+Monster Rebounder

Rebounding is apart of offense or defense, it's baked in. With the rules and no 3pt line in Russells era he only really needed to be a monster defender (an understatement) to be a goat candidate, especially if were going by impact relative to era.

[Rishkar]

I'm curious on why he isn't apart of the goat candidates in the realgm forum top players of all time.

He has a 2-1 record against lebron who was voted as the number 1 player in this forum.

I'll also like an explanation on all the stats that get thrown out here like darko, scoreval ,playval,Aug+- WOWR etc & how kd fares in this statistical categories

I actually see KD as a fantastic scorer who's just kind of average at everything else. Looking at it from a four factor's perspective (scoring efficiency, turnovers, rebounding, and defensive efficiency) other candidates impact the game from more angles. It's important to note that scoring efficiency, turnovers, rebounding, and defensive efficiency are all meaningful on a team level, so elite passing helps scoring efficiency and boxing out helps team rebounds ect.) Kareem scores like Durant, but was a much better defender. Lebron's passing gives him an edge in creating efficient team offense, while being better on defense. Another important factor is longevity and durability. How long do you play, how many minutes, and how often are you injured can heavily influence those with a cumulative value approach. I personally break basketball down into man defense, help defense, on ball scoring, off ball scoring, free throw rate + efficiency, passing ability (put scoring and passing ability together for playmaking), defensive rebounding, offensive rebounding, defensive rebounding, longevity (total seasons played), durability (ability to stay healthy), load (minutes per game or season), and turnover economy. How many of these areas is KD elite?

[SHAQ32]

He was on his way but it's been pretty lackluster (relatively speaking) since 2019

[penbeast0]

I would go a bit further.

To be a GOAT candidate you want at least 3 of the following:

Great scoring
Great defense
Great rebounding
Great playmaking
Great longevity/durability
Great intangibles

Durant checks great scoring, above average defense, playmaking, and longevity, weak rebounding for his position and weak intangibles (the social media accounts, going to GS, team building with Kyrie in NJ). That's just not enough for top 10.

[Cavsfansince84]

I don't even see him as a top 10 candidate. I think you can probably make a decent case for him being top 12-14 if you highly value iso scoring in the playoffs and aren't too low on his intangibles/leadership but I'd still have him at about 20-22.

[MiamiBulls]

Many reasons, Defensive Efficiency, Playmaking etc.

The biggest reason is his lack of ball security; Durant's Turnover Economy in the Playoffs is atrocious which depreciates his overall scoring Efficiency.

2011 v Memphis
Durant: More Turnovers than Assists

2011 v Dallas
Durant: 1 Less Turnovers than Assists

2014 v Memphis
Durant: More Turnovers than Assists

2014 v Spurs
Durant: More Turnovers than Assists

2016 Playoffs
Durant: More Total Turnovers than Assists

Durant was an absolute Turnover Machine similar to Jaylen Brown.

[homecourtloss]

I'm curious on why he isn't apart of the goat candidates in the realgm forum top players of all time.

He has a 2-1 record against lebron who was voted as the number 1 player in this forum.

I'll also like an explanation on all the stats that get thrown out here like darko, scoreval ,playval,Aug+- WOWR etc & how kd fares in this statistical categories

I don’t think I have ever seen anybody ask why someone like Durant isn’t a GoAT candidate but
even knows what DARKO, playval, AuPM are

[DCasey91]

I'm curious on why he isn't apart of the goat candidates in the realgm forum top players of all time.

He has a 2-1 record against lebron who was voted as the number 1 player in this forum.

I'll also like an explanation on all the stats that get thrown out here like darko, scoreval ,playval,Aug+- WOWR etc & how kd fares in this statistical categories

Number of things:

Leadership - Can’t hold a candle to the best of all time in that department. Probably the most underrated thing

Russell, Magic, Duncan there’s a huge difference here.

One of the most talented and naturally gifted individuals I’ll give you that

Potency - He’s more of the icing than the whole cake so to speak. I prefer Dirk holistically as an engine for example

On raw analysis/deeper dives I’m sure there’s evidence that Durant doesn’t quite have the peak that others have

He’s 2-1 vs Lebron because he was on possibly the most stacked team in existence. In fact Durant has played on very very talented teams. We haven’t seen him hard carry since his MVP year yonks ago

Average to below average playmaker when stacked up for his size, average defender (only good when you had a genius Green behind him), average passer and rebounder.

If you hyper focus on scoring then u can tend to overrate him.

[falcolombardi]

He is not good enough

[Homer38]

Many reasons, Defensive Efficiency, Playmaking etc.

This biggest reason is his lack of ball security; Durant's Turnover Economy in the Playoffs is atrocious which depreciates his overall scoring Efficiency.

2011 v Memphis
Durant: More Turnovers than Assists

2011 v Dallas
Durant: 1 Less Turnovers than Assists

2014 v Memphis
Durant: More Turnovers than Assists

2014 v Spurs
Durant: More Turnovers than Assists

2016 Playoffs
Durant: More Total Turnovers than Assists

Durant was an absolute Turnover Machine similar to Jaylen Brown.

He had also more turnovers than assists in the finals vs Heat in 2012(11 assists vs 19 turnovers)

[tsherkin]

I'm struggling to think of why he WOULD ever be considered a GOAT candidate.

He's an excellent scorer. He's not dominant in literally any other capacity of the game. There have been many high-end scorers in league history with whom he has to compete. And at some point, he just hasn't been the best player in the league at any point, let alone of all-time... Name a season where he was actually the best in the league. Now name two consecutive seasons where he was.

And there's your answer.

Competition for best in-era is strong enough, let alone of all-time.

[HeartBreakKid]

because he wasn't the best player of his time

[Colbinii]

I would go a bit further.

To be a GOAT candidate you want at least 3 of the following:

Great scoring
Great defense
Great rebounding
Great playmaking
Great longevity/durability
Great intangibles

Durant checks great scoring, above average defense, playmaking, and longevity, weak rebounding for his position and weak intangibles (the social media accounts, going to GS, team building with Kyrie in NJ). That's just not enough for top 10.

Nice to see KG checking 4 of these--maybe 5.

[Colbinii]

because he wasn't the best player of his time

Bingo. It is very simple.

He wasn't greater than LeBron or Curry.