Where would Peak Kevin McHale rank today?

[Matt15]

Where would peak Kevin McHale rank overall in today's game?

[jdzimme3]

I will suggest somewhere between 6 and 10. There are a handful of guys i would put above him with out thinking too hard but not many

[Whiffyemperor]

He a poor man Domantas Sabonis today,can't really shoot and defend the perimeter,lacks ballhandlig and passing abilities too.

I will say somewhere between 40th to 50th best player in thr league

[Colbinii]

He a poor man Domantas Sabonis today,can't really shoot and defend the perimeter,lacks ballhandlig and passing abilities too.

I will say somewhere between 40th to 50th best player in thr league

McHale was a much better defender than Sabonis and is much leaner/slimmer.

[Cavsfansince84]

I'd say somewhere like 8-12. His post scoring efficiency wouldn't seem so outlierish in today's league but it would still be potent to set up outside shooting if he'd be a more willing passer. I think he'd be fine on defense. He was often guarding sf's back in the 80's and doing a good job. I don't think its fair to drop players from 20+ years ago in today's league without thinking they would adapt somewhat.

[70sFan]

He a poor man Domantas Sabonis today,can't really shoot and defend the perimeter,lacks ballhandlig and passing abilities too.

I will say somewhere between 40th to 50th best player in thr league

McHale was a much better defender than Sabonis and is much leaner/slimmer.

He's also a better shooter than Sabonis.

This quote looks like an opinion of someone who has never watched a single McHale game.

[Colbinii]

He a poor man Domantas Sabonis today,can't really shoot and defend the perimeter,lacks ballhandlig and passing abilities too.

I will say somewhere between 40th to 50th best player in thr league

McHale was a much better defender than Sabonis and is much leaner/slimmer.

He's also a better shooter than Sabonis.

This quote looks like an opinion of someone who has never watched a single McHale game.

It would be hilarious if we just start assuming people haven't seen current players.

McHale like Sabonis?

I see you haven't watched Sabonis. Sabonis is a better passer but worse shooting touch and worse defender. You should watch the Kings sometime to compare

I understand his Topps card makes him look slim, but Sabonis isn't actually that slim.

[70sFan]

McHale was a much better defender than Sabonis and is much leaner/slimmer.

He's also a better shooter than Sabonis.

This quote looks like an opinion of someone who has never watched a single McHale game.

It would be hilarious if we just start assuming people haven't seen current players.

McHale like Sabonis?

I see you haven't watched Sabonis. Sabonis is a better passer but worse shooting touch and worse defender. You should watch the Kings sometime to compare

I understand his Topps card makes him look slim, but Sabonis isn't actually that slim.

Wait, not sure I understand your reply but I was talking about Whiffyemperor. You are right about Sabonis Vs McHale comparison, it's ridiculous.

[Colbinii]

He's also a better shooter than Sabonis.

This quote looks like an opinion of someone who has never watched a single McHale game.

It would be hilarious if we just start assuming people haven't seen current players.

McHale like Sabonis?

I see you haven't watched Sabonis. Sabonis is a better passer but worse shooting touch and worse defender. You should watch the Kings sometime to compare

I understand his Topps card makes him look slim, but Sabonis isn't actually that slim.

Wait, not sure I understand your reply but I was talking about Whiffyemperor. You are right about Sabonis Vs McHale comparison, it's ridiculous.

Yeah. You assumed he had never seen McHale. I would just assume he never saw Sabonis.

[70sFan]

It would be hilarious if we just start assuming people haven't seen current players.

McHale like Sabonis?

I see you haven't watched Sabonis. Sabonis is a better passer but worse shooting touch and worse defender. You should watch the Kings sometime to compare

I understand his Topps card makes him look slim, but Sabonis isn't actually that slim.

Wait, not sure I understand your reply but I was talking about Whiffyemperor. You are right about Sabonis Vs McHale comparison, it's ridiculous.

Yeah. You assumed he had never seen McHale. I would just assume he never saw Sabonis.

Yeah, they were nothing alike at all. Sabonis main strength was McHale's weakness. Sabonis was much different physically. They didn't play similar style. Kevin was significantly better scorer and defender.

It looks like he equated them because both are white...

[Whiffyemperor]

He a poor man Domantas Sabonis today,can't really shoot and defend the perimeter,lacks ballhandlig and passing abilities too.

I will say somewhere between 40th to 50th best player in thr league

McHale was a much better defender than Sabonis and is much leaner/slimmer.

He's also a better shooter than Sabonis.

This quote looks like an opinion of someone who has never watched a single McHale game.

I have he played in a weak era where u could get isolation post up anytime.

He wouldn't have the luxury today plus today players will cook him he guarded non shooting threats back them

[penbeast0]

I have he played in a weak era where u could get isolation post up anytime.

He wouldn't have the luxury today plus today players will cook him he guarded non shooting threats back them

Again, two false claims out of 2.

(1) The paint was more crowded and doubling post players more common than today where the great amount of 3 point shooting leaves the paint area much emptier and penalizes heavier for doubling. So, a post player today generally has more room and more ability to isolate than they did in the 80s.

(2) McHale often guarded the better shooter of either forward because Bird's feet were slower and his man defense weaker. So McHale was used at times as the man defender so Bird could guard the non-shooter and disrupt the passing lanes even though McHale was the shotblocker of the two. The Celtics figured they had Parish (and Walton for a year) to be the drop coverage rim defender.

[tsherkin]

McHale was quite good.

18-ish feet of range reliably and regularly in his own time, with mechanics and FT shooting that make it hard to suggest he wouldn't manage 34-36% from 3 on your usual big-guy 3s. Savage post scorer. Excellent at off-ball positioning and jockeying for post position. Fantastic and versatile defender. Can't imagine him having translation issues there today, given how he handled 3s in his own day. Had some very basic handles and ball control to run the ball in transition. Massive wingspan, high release.

I think he's be top 15 today. I think not the guy you'd want to run your whole offense through because he wasn't a high-end creator, but he was an incredible finisher and passed well enough in a team context. Plus his defense. Definitely a high-value guy.

[70sFan]

McHale was quite good.

18-ish feet of range reliably and regularly in his own time, with mechanics and FT shooting that make it hard to suggest he wouldn't manage 34-36% from 3 on your usual big-guy 3s. Savage post scorer. Excellent at off-ball positioning and jockeying for post position. Fantastic and versatile defender. Can't imagine him having translation issues there today, given how he handled 3s in his own day. Had some very basic handles and ball control to run the ball in transition. Massive wingspan, high release.

I think he's be top 15 today. I think not the guy you'd want to run your whole offense through because he wasn't a high-end creator, but he was an incredible finisher and passed well enough in a team context. Plus his defense. Definitely a high-value guy.

Much different style, but his utility is similar to Anthony Davis - excellent finisher and strong defender, but not much of a creator. I think Davis peaked higher, but the ground is similar.

[prolific passer]

McHale's post moves would make him live at the free throw line with the way the game is called. Also he would bring his navy with him if people know what I am talking about.

[tsherkin]

Much different style, but his utility is similar to Anthony Davis - excellent finisher and strong defender, but not much of a creator. I think Davis peaked higher, but the ground is similar.

I could see that, yeah.

[kcktiny]

One of the best seasons by a PF the past 4+ decades was McHale in 1986-87.

Played 40 min/g, scored 26.1 pts/g, was extremely efficient on offense, average rebounder but good shot blocker, all-NBA 1st team and all-defensive 1st team.

[OhayoKD]

He a poor man Domantas Sabonis today,can't really shoot and defend the perimeter,lacks ballhandlig and passing abilities too.

I will say somewhere between 40th to 50th best player in thr league

McHale was a much better defender than Sabonis and is much leaner/slimmer.

He's also a better shooter than Sabonis.

This quote looks like an opinion of someone who has never watched a single McHale game.

Well whatever it looks like, they were hard-tracking boston vs houston a few days ago.

I have he played in a weak era where u could get isolation post up anytime.

He wouldn't have the luxury today plus today players will cook him he guarded non shooting threats back them

Again, two false claims out of 2.

(1) The paint was more crowded and doubling post players more common than today where the great amount of 3 point shooting leaves the paint area much emptier and penalizes heavier for doubling. So, a post player today generally has more room and more ability to isolate than they did in the 80s.

(2) McHale often guarded the better shooter of either forward because Bird's feet were slower and his man defense weaker. So McHale was used at times as the man defender so Bird could guard the non-shooter and disrupt the passing lanes even though McHale was the shotblocker of the two. The Celtics figured they had Parish (and Walton for a year) to be the drop coverage rim defender.

(1) In a raw frequency sense this is true. But era-translation isn't a matter of just upping frequency. Elite slashers and ball-handlers benefit more from spacing than post-players do. And it's modern slashers/ball-handlers that mchale will have to keep pace with. Granted, he could handle the ball unusually well for an 80's forward. Defenses also defend entry passes better fwiw. I would expect almost any post-player to lose relative value now.

(2) Not sure how this makes the 2nd claim "false". Mchale being a better man defender and rim-defender than bird doesn't really change he was facing much weaker shooters than he would today. As you say, "the paint was more crowded".

[penbeast0]

(a) Post play is easier and less defended today, just less used. Even guys like Daniel Gafford are shooting .600+ consistently without real go to post moves. A lot of that is because it is less used, they will defend someone scoring high volume more but McHale should be even more efficient if possibly less prolific than he was in his own era.

(b) The claim was that McHale defended non-shooters. That would be Bird when there was the opportunity to switch up. McHale defended mainly midrange specialists and post up scorers rather than 3 point specialists but they weren't non-shooters, just less range. That would include guys like Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins; slashing is not a tool that has just been invented in the 21st century. He'd be a 5 today (and could have been in his era if he hadn't spent his career next to Parish) and a pretty switchable one.

[OhayoKD]

(a) Post play is easier and less defended today, just less used. Even guys like Daniel Gafford are shooting .600+ consistently without real go to post moves. A lot of that is because it is less used, they will defend someone scoring high volume more but McHale should be even more efficient if possibly less prolific than he was in his own era.

(b) The claim was that McHale defended non-shooters. That would be Bird when there was the opportunity to switch up. McHale defended mainly midrange specialists and post up scorers rather than 3 point specialists but they weren't non-shooters, just less range. That would include guys like Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins; slashing is not a tool that has just been invented in the 21st century. He'd be a 5 today (and could have been in his era if he hadn't spent his career next to Parish) and a pretty switchable one.

(a) he can be more prolific and more efficient and still be less effective as a post-player because prolific-ness and effeciency have gone up for everyone...including McHale's competition. Case in point: Daniel Gafford shoots .600+ and...do we actually care?

(b) didn't interpret the claim that literally but sure.