92-97 John Starks vs 2015-22 Klay Thompson

SHAQ32 · Post #1 » by **SHAQ32** » Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:40 pm

I think this is a closer comparison than some of the other, bigger names that Klay gets compared to.

AEnigma · Post #2 » by **AEnigma** » Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:50 pm

Remember how the Knicks started Allan Houston and an older Latrell Sprewell?

What if you combined those into one player?

Post #3 » by **penbeast0** » Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:56 pm

Starks had better playmaking and handles than Thompson has shown; Thompson has considerably better size and shooting than Starks ever demonstrated. I don't think it's all that close since you don't play Klay for his playmaking.

SHAQ32 · Post #4 » by **SHAQ32** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:02 am

penbeast0 wrote:Starks had better playmaking and handles than Thompson has shown; Thompson has considerably better size and shooting than Starks ever demonstrated. I don't think it's all that close since you don't play Klay for his playmaking.

Starks was a much better defender. Don't forget that part.

Post #5 » by **penbeast0** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:29 am

For his size, yes, Klay's size gives him an advantage v. taller players and on switches that tends to cut into that defensive difference.

SHAQ32 · Post #6 » by **SHAQ32** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:55 am

penbeast0 wrote:For his size, yes, Klay's size gives him an advantage v. taller players and on switches that tends to cut into that defensive difference.

Not really. Klay lacks the lateral quickness to be effective. Especially since coming back from the injuries.

The Warriors as a team haven't been good defensively with Klay since 2017.

1993Playoffs · Post #7 » by **1993Playoffs** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:57 am

Klay and it’s not close

Post #8 » by **penbeast0** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:31 am

SHAQ32 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:For his size, yes, Klay's size gives him an advantage v. taller players and on switches that tends to cut into that defensive difference.

Not really. Klay lacks the lateral quickness to be effective. Especially since coming back from the injuries.

The Warriors as a team haven't been good defensively with Klay since 2017.

It's 2015 to 2022 Klay in the OP, so mainly before the injury.

MiamiBulls · Post #9 » by **MiamiBulls** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:56 am

Starks Career TS+ is 97. He has a scoring Efficiency that was BELOW League Average 11 out of 14 Seasons of Starks' Career.
'93 Knicks: 6th Worst Offense in the NBA
'94 Knicks: 11th Worst Offense in the NBA
'95 Knicks: 11th Worst Offense in the NBA
'96 Knicks: 9th Worst Offense in the NBA
'97 Knicks: 5th Worst Offense in the NBA
'98 Knicks: 10th Worst Offense in the NBA

Klay Thompson '16 GSW: 24ppg per 75 on +5.6% rTS on the no.1 ranked Offense in the NBA.

homecourtloss · Post #10 » by **homecourtloss** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:21 am

1993Playoffs wrote:Klay and it’s not close

Easily. The fact that people even bring up John Starks in discussions such as these speaks of the overall dearth in guard and wing talent in the NBA during the ‘90s.

SHAQ32 · Post #11 » by **SHAQ32** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:52 am

MiamiBulls wrote:Starks Career TS+ is 97. He has a scoring Efficiency that was BELOW League Average 11 out of 14 Seasons of Starks' Career.
'93 Knicks: 6th Worst Offense in the NBA
'94 Knicks: 11th Worst Offense in the NBA
'95 Knicks: 11th Worst Offense in the NBA
'96 Knicks: 9th Worst Offense in the NBA
'97 Knicks: 5th Worst Offense in the NBA
'98 Knicks: 10th Worst Offense in the NBA

Klay Thompson '16 GSW: 24ppg per 75 on +5.6% rTS on the no.1 ranked Offense in the NBA.

Seasons outside of the comparison FTL. And then look at the other side of the ball in those team ratings.

SHAQ32 · Post #12 » by **SHAQ32** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:55 am

homecourtloss wrote:The fact that people even bring up John Starks in discussions such as these speaks of the overall dearth in guard and wing talent in the NBA during the ‘90s.

I think it speaks to the opposite, actually. That Starks edges Klay out in VORP, BPM, WS, and WS/48, yet doesn't have nearly the accolades. It's kind of like the Reggie Miller situation. The impact far outweighs the acknowledgment.

Djoker · Post #13 » by **Djoker** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:08 am

SHAQ32 wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:The fact that people even bring up John Starks in discussions such as these speaks of the overall dearth in guard and wing talent in the NBA during the ‘90s.

I think it speaks to the opposite, actually. That Starks edges Klay out in VORP, BPM, WS, and WS/48, yet doesn't have nearly the accolades. It's kind of like the Reggie Miller situation. The impact far outweighs the acknowledgment.

Miller is a different story entirely. I agree that Reggie is quite comfortably better than Klay.

Not Starks though. Klay > Starks as others have said.

SHAQ32 · Post #14 » by **SHAQ32** » Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:11 am

Djoker wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:The fact that people even bring up John Starks in discussions such as these speaks of the overall dearth in guard and wing talent in the NBA during the ‘90s.

I think it speaks to the opposite, actually. That Starks edges Klay out in VORP, BPM, WS, and WS/48, yet doesn't have nearly the accolades. It's kind of like the Reggie Miller situation. The impact far outweighs the acknowledgment.

Miller is a different story entirely. I agree that Reggie is quite comfortably better than Klay.

Not Starks though. Klay > Starks as others have said.

Cool. That's not what the stats say tho.

SportsGuru08 · Post #15 » by **SportsGuru08** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 3:50 am

SHAQ32 wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:The fact that people even bring up John Starks in discussions such as these speaks of the overall dearth in guard and wing talent in the NBA during the ‘90s.

I think it speaks to the opposite, actually. That Starks edges Klay out in VORP, BPM, WS, and WS/48, yet doesn't have nearly the accolades. It's kind of like the Reggie Miller situation. The impact far outweighs the acknowledgment.

It's also worth noting that Jeff Hornacek and Hersey Hawkins are ahead of Klay in all the major advanced metrics and Dan Majerle is ahead of Klay in everything except PER

But all those guys (and Hornacek in particular) are regarded as "bums", "milkmen" and "plumbers". Meanwhile, Klay is classified as a superstar.

HeartBreakKid · Post #16 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:45 pm

SHAQ32 wrote:
Djoker wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:I think it speaks to the opposite, actually. That Starks edges Klay out in VORP, BPM, WS, and WS/48, yet doesn't have nearly the accolades. It's kind of like the Reggie Miller situation. The impact far outweighs the acknowledgment.

Miller is a different story entirely. I agree that Reggie is quite comfortably better than Klay.

Not Starks though. Klay > Starks as others have said.

Cool. That's not what the stats say tho.

The stats you listed are pretty much equal among them. And why didn't you list the stats the Klay Thompson "edges" Stark out on as well?

homecourtloss · Post #17 » by **homecourtloss** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:19 pm

SportsGuru08 wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:The fact that people even bring up John Starks in discussions such as these speaks of the overall dearth in guard and wing talent in the NBA during the ‘90s.

I think it speaks to the opposite, actually. That Starks edges Klay out in VORP, BPM, WS, and WS/48, yet doesn't have nearly the accolades. It's kind of like the Reggie Miller situation. The impact far outweighs the acknowledgment.

It's also worth noting that Jeff Hornacek and Hersey Hawkins are ahead of Klay in all the major advanced metrics and Dan Majerle is ahead of Klay in everything except PER

But all those guys (and Hornacek in particular) are regarded as "bums", "milkmen" and "plumbers". Meanwhile, Klay is classified as a superstar.

EmpireFalls · Post #18 » by **EmpireFalls** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:52 pm

Klay.

Post #19 » by **penbeast0** » Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:51 pm

SportsGuru08 wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:The fact that people even bring up John Starks in discussions such as these speaks of the overall dearth in guard and wing talent in the NBA during the ‘90s.

I think it speaks to the opposite, actually. That Starks edges Klay out in VORP, BPM, WS, and WS/48, yet doesn't have nearly the accolades. It's kind of like the Reggie Miller situation. The impact far outweighs the acknowledgment.

It's also worth noting that Jeff Hornacek and Hersey Hawkins are ahead of Klay in all the major advanced metrics and Dan Majerle is ahead of Klay in everything except PER

But all those guys (and Hornacek in particular) are regarded as "bums", "milkmen" and "plumbers". Meanwhile, Klay is classified as a superstar.

I think you have the milkmen and plumbers line wrong. Hornacek, Hawkins, and Majerle played contemporaneously with MJ or Kobe so they must be real NBA players. It's everyone before Bird and Magic entered the league that's classified as incapable of playing in the modern NBA.

SportsGuru08 · Post #20 » by **SportsGuru08** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 1:18 am

penbeast0 wrote:
SportsGuru08 wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:I think it speaks to the opposite, actually. That Starks edges Klay out in VORP, BPM, WS, and WS/48, yet doesn't have nearly the accolades. It's kind of like the Reggie Miller situation. The impact far outweighs the acknowledgment.

It's also worth noting that Jeff Hornacek and Hersey Hawkins are ahead of Klay in all the major advanced metrics and Dan Majerle is ahead of Klay in everything except PER

But all those guys (and Hornacek in particular) are regarded as "bums", "milkmen" and "plumbers". Meanwhile, Klay is classified as a superstar.

I think you have the milkmen and plumbers line wrong. Hornacek, Hawkins, and Majerle played contemporaneously with MJ or Kobe so they must be real NBA players. It's everyone before Bird and Magic entered the league that's classified as incapable of playing in the modern NBA.

Nah, I've been hearing that kind of slanderous talk even toward '80s and '90s players lately, and especially the latter. Basically, everyone in the '90s was a plumber unless they played in Chicago.