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I've been advocating Thurmond and Wallace for the Top 100 project, Dwight is already nominated, and I would imagine that Mutombo, Mourning, and potentially even Eaton will get consideration later. How many of these players do you see Gobert passing up by the time he retires, and about what placement range do you think he'll fall into (ex. 60-70)?

Great question. I think he'll be in the 80s at a minimum. (or should be, and that's coming from someone who doesn't value longevity)

I don't think Rudy is as good as Mutumbo, Mourning or Howard. However, it seems like he will have a longer career than the latter 2, and that can definitely help him surpass them on the list. It seems like his post prime is coming up soon though.

HeartBreakKid wrote:Great question. I think he'll be in the 80s at a minimum. (or should be, and that's coming from someone who doesn't value longevity)

I don't think Rudy is as good as Mutumbo, Mourning or Howard. However, it seems like he will have a longer career than the latter 2, and that can definitely help him surpass them on the list. It seems like his post prime is coming up soon though.

Do you lump all 3 of Mutombo, Mourning and Howard in a similar tier?

I think I'd have Gobert's peak Low-MVP, clearly above Mutombo.

Colbinii wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:Great question. I think he'll be in the 80s at a minimum. (or should be, and that's coming from someone who doesn't value longevity)

I don't think Rudy is as good as Mutumbo, Mourning or Howard. However, it seems like he will have a longer career than the latter 2, and that can definitely help him surpass them on the list. It seems like his post prime is coming up soon though.

Do you lump all 3 of Mutombo, Mourning and Howard in a similar tier?

I think I'd have Gobert's peak Low-MVP, clearly above Mutombo.

I think Howard is maybe a tier above them, or the very top of his tier while they're in the back.

Not a single basketball player in history had as much impact as Gobert in 2020

Really was a showstopper that year

I think Gobert will compete for top 60 when he ends his career.

HeartBreakKid wrote:Great question. I think he'll be in the 80s at a minimum. (or should be, and that's coming from someone who doesn't value longevity)

I don't think Rudy is as good as Mutumbo, Mourning or Howard. However, it seems like he will have a longer career than the latter 2, and that can definitely help him surpass them on the list. It seems like his post prime is coming up soon though.

I think his impact defensively might be a bit less due to era differentials, but I think Rudy's prime is a bit better than Deke's with similar defense and superior offense, and, depending on how you view Zo's turnover issues, quite comparable to him as well. The problem is that modern offenses have developed more of an ability to work around or take advantage of the limitations of the big stationary center so his value is hurt by that the way it is helped by his having an open middle of the court when he's on offense. Add to that his issues getting along with teammates where both Mutumbo and Mourning were highly respected and I have him a bit below them even without longevity.

Ben Wallace is always a tough one though because his defense was so good and his offense arguably the worst of any player to ever be considered All-Star caliber.

Colbinii wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:Great question. I think he'll be in the 80s at a minimum. (or should be, and that's coming from someone who doesn't value longevity)

I don't think Rudy is as good as Mutumbo, Mourning or Howard. However, it seems like he will have a longer career than the latter 2, and that can definitely help him surpass them on the list. It seems like his post prime is coming up soon though.

Do you lump all 3 of Mutombo, Mourning and Howard in a similar tier?

I think I'd have Gobert's peak Low-MVP, clearly above Mutombo.

Gobert offers more on offense than Deke. So you must have Gobert's defense either at or near as Deke's level? Is that right? I'd have Deke the best defender of these 4 names and I have consistently had him higher than the others, particularly Mourning who while he scored 20 ppg wasn't actually a very good offensive player.

But if you have Gobert's defensive impact at Deke's level, I would agree what he brings offensively would elevate him. I've never understood why outside of Utah, his offense has never gotten its due. Utah had elite offenses with Gobert and Gobert played a key role in that with his screens, his rim running, and his offensive rebounding. I think people are too quick to look at "unskilled" bigs and conclude they aren't good offensive players. But full stop I have guys like Gobert, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler as better offensive players than a Boogie Cousins who can do a bunch of things they never dreamed of doing, but not nearly as well as he thought to justify all the stuff he did.

Texas Chuck wrote:...

Gobert offers more on offense than Deke. So you must have Gobert's defense either at or near as Deke's level? Is that right? I'd have Deke the best defender of these 4 names and I have consistently had him higher than the others, particularly Mourning who while he scored 20 ppg wasn't actually a very good offensive player.

But if you have Gobert's defensive impact at Deke's level, I would agree what he brings offensively would elevate him. I've never understood why outside of Utah, his offense has never gotten its due. Utah had elite offenses with Gobert and Gobert played a key role in that with his screens, his rim running, and his offensive rebounding. I think people are too quick to look at "unskilled" bigs and conclude they aren't good offensive players. But full stop I have guys like Gobert, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler as better offensive players than a Boogie Cousins who can do a bunch of things they never dreamed of doing, but not nearly as well as he thought to justify all the stuff he did.

So you don't buy into the "can't play in the playoffs in today's game" take?

penbeast0 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:...

Gobert offers more on offense than Deke. So you must have Gobert's defense either at or near as Deke's level? Is that right? I'd have Deke the best defender of these 4 names and I have consistently had him higher than the others, particularly Mourning who while he scored 20 ppg wasn't actually a very good offensive player.

But if you have Gobert's defensive impact at Deke's level, I would agree what he brings offensively would elevate him. I've never understood why outside of Utah, his offense has never gotten its due. Utah had elite offenses with Gobert and Gobert played a key role in that with his screens, his rim running, and his offensive rebounding. I think people are too quick to look at "unskilled" bigs and conclude they aren't good offensive players. But full stop I have guys like Gobert, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler as better offensive players than a Boogie Cousins who can do a bunch of things they never dreamed of doing, but not nearly as well as he thought to justify all the stuff he did.

So you don't buy into the "can't play in the playoffs in today's game" take?

That take has no basis in reality.

penbeast0 wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:...

Gobert offers more on offense than Deke. So you must have Gobert's defense either at or near as Deke's level? Is that right? I'd have Deke the best defender of these 4 names and I have consistently had him higher than the others, particularly Mourning who while he scored 20 ppg wasn't actually a very good offensive player.

But if you have Gobert's defensive impact at Deke's level, I would agree what he brings offensively would elevate him. I've never understood why outside of Utah, his offense has never gotten its due. Utah had elite offenses with Gobert and Gobert played a key role in that with his screens, his rim running, and his offensive rebounding. I think people are too quick to look at "unskilled" bigs and conclude they aren't good offensive players. But full stop I have guys like Gobert, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler as better offensive players than a Boogie Cousins who can do a bunch of things they never dreamed of doing, but not nearly as well as he thought to justify all the stuff he did.

So you don't buy into the "can't play in the playoffs in today's game" take?

With Gobert? Not even a little bit. It's built around a loss to the Warriors(like get in line) and then that series against Dallas where the Jazz put forth the worst perimeter defense maybe in NBA playoff history. But if you look at Dallas' season numbers versus that series, Gobert was having a influence greatly reducing their paint opportunities and their effectiveness on them. It's just Mitchell refused to even try, O'Neale was more interested in trying to bully guys than play defense, and the rest of the guys just were bad. Poor Bojan was having to be the primary defender at times on both Brunson and Luka because he was the only guy giving effort.

But people just don't like Gobert. So he took all the blame when it should have been Mitchell. But Conley was horrible. Clarkson was horrible. O'Neale who was supposed to be their stopper was horrible.

Nothing about being an elite defensive anchor doesn't translate to the playoffs. But it does mean you can't ask Gobert to defend all 5 guys like Utah was asking him to do.

Texas Chuck wrote:

Colbinii wrote:

HeartBreakKid wrote:Great question. I think he'll be in the 80s at a minimum. (or should be, and that's coming from someone who doesn't value longevity)

I don't think Rudy is as good as Mutumbo, Mourning or Howard. However, it seems like he will have a longer career than the latter 2, and that can definitely help him surpass them on the list. It seems like his post prime is coming up soon though.

Do you lump all 3 of Mutombo, Mourning and Howard in a similar tier?

I think I'd have Gobert's peak Low-MVP, clearly above Mutombo.

Gobert offers more on offense than Deke. So you must have Gobert's defense either at or near as Deke's level? Is that right? I'd have Deke the best defender of these 4 names and I have consistently had him higher than the others, particularly Mourning who while he scored 20 ppg wasn't actually a very good offensive player.

But if you have Gobert's defensive impact at Deke's level, I would agree what he brings offensively would elevate him. I've never understood why outside of Utah, his offense has never gotten its due. Utah had elite offenses with Gobert and Gobert played a key role in that with his screens, his rim running, and his offensive rebounding. I think people are too quick to look at "unskilled" bigs and conclude they aren't good offensive players. But full stop I have guys like Gobert, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler as better offensive players than a Boogie Cousins who can do a bunch of things they never dreamed of doing, but not nearly as well as he thought to justify all the stuff he did.

I consider Gobert to be on mutombo's level defensively. I believe go bear is a quicker athlete which allows him to defend in space better and defend the different variations of the pick and roll better.

I believe Mutombo is better in schemes where there's less movement and rotation and an eras where there's less pace and space.

Probably around where guys like Mutumbo would be.

I don't care enough to litigate it, but he's a 100% bona fide hall of famer even if he retired tomorrow, and that's going to be a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people.

He will never surpass Ben Wallace for me though, so wherever we have Wallace all time, that's Gobert's ceiling.

EmpireFalls wrote:I don't care enough to litigate it, but he's a 100% bona fide hall of famer even if he retired tomorrow, and that's going to be a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people.

He will never surpass Ben Wallace for me though, so wherever we have Wallace all time, that's Gobert's ceiling.

What if Minnesota makes the Finals two times in the next 4 years with Gobert being a large part of the success?

Depends if it looks like he’s getting exposed in the playoffs.

Currently Gobert is probably in the Klay iggy range (like 110s-120s)

He’s been a high quality player for a decent time now (about 7-8 years now) and has multiple years as a all nba level player (a few years where he has a weak top 10 argument). That’s pretty similar to someone like Klay Thompson. Defensive anchor Bigs are usually longevity merchants so if he can pump out a decade + of all star to all nba level seasons i don’t see why he can’t be in the top 80-90 range

ceoofkobefans wrote:Currently Gobert is probably in the Klay iggy range (like 110s-120s)

He’s been a high quality player for a decent time now (about 7-8 years now) and has multiple years as a all nba level player (a few years where he has a weak top 10 argument). That’s pretty similar to someone like Klay Thompson. Defensive anchor Bigs are usually longevity merchants so if he can pump out a decade + of all star to all nba level seasons i don’t see why he can’t be in the top 80-90 range

Klay is not a Gobert calibre player.

Colbinii wrote:

Texas Chuck wrote:

Colbinii wrote:
Do you lump all 3 of Mutombo, Mourning and Howard in a similar tier?

I think I'd have Gobert's peak Low-MVP, clearly above Mutombo.

Gobert offers more on offense than Deke. So you must have Gobert's defense either at or near as Deke's level? Is that right? I'd have Deke the best defender of these 4 names and I have consistently had him higher than the others, particularly Mourning who while he scored 20 ppg wasn't actually a very good offensive player.

But if you have Gobert's defensive impact at Deke's level, I would agree what he brings offensively would elevate him. I've never understood why outside of Utah, his offense has never gotten its due. Utah had elite offenses with Gobert and Gobert played a key role in that with his screens, his rim running, and his offensive rebounding. I think people are too quick to look at "unskilled" bigs and conclude they aren't good offensive players. But full stop I have guys like Gobert, DeAndre Jordan, Tyson Chandler as better offensive players than a Boogie Cousins who can do a bunch of things they never dreamed of doing, but not nearly as well as he thought to justify all the stuff he did.

I consider Gobert to be on mutombo's level defensively. I believe go bear is a quicker athlete which allows him to defend in space better and defend the different variations of the pick and roll better.

I believe Mutombo is better in schemes where there's less movement and rotation and an eras where there's less pace and space.

Mutembo happening to play in an era where he didn't have to cover as much ground doesn't really logically lead to gobert being worse if he was asked to cover less ground.

Gobert is just a better defender in the absolute. Mutembo however played in a time when Gobert's limitations were not as limiting so I can see a strictly era-relative case.

OhayoKD wrote:

ceoofkobefans wrote:Currently Gobert is probably in the Klay iggy range (like 110s-120s)

He’s been a high quality player for a decent time now (about 7-8 years now) and has multiple years as a all nba level player (a few years where he has a weak top 10 argument). That’s pretty similar to someone like Klay Thompson. Defensive anchor Bigs are usually longevity merchants so if he can pump out a decade + of all star to all nba level seasons i don’t see why he can’t be in the top 80-90 range

Klay is not a Gobert calibre player.

At his peak he is. Both are like fringey to solid all nba guys