RealGM

Where would Peak Kobe rank in todays league?

Only one I would comfortably take over peak Kobe today is Jokic. So probably top 3

for RS I would take Jokic, Embiid, Giannis and Curry as well. I'd say top 5.
While we've had clear cut better players in Lebron and Curry, no other perimeter player of the last 10-12 years convinced me enough to be considered clearly over peak Kobe.
not kawhi....not durant....not harden

for the PS I would say top 5 as well but over Embiid and current Curry.

top 5 prob. jok and giannis only players def better.

4 or 5

I voted Top 10. I could see him finishing as high as #2 in a POY ballot [injuries preventing Jokic from being #1 could put Kobe #1]. I can also see players like Giannis, Embiid, Curry, LeBron, Haliburton, SGA and Booker ahead of him.

Colbinii wrote:I voted Top 10. I could see him finishing as high as #2 in a POY ballot [injuries preventing Jokic from being #1 could put Kobe #1]. I can also see players like Giannis, Embiid, Curry, LeBron, Haliburton, SGA and Booker ahead of him.

I voted top 5 but have questions like you.

For example, what seasons did Kobe have where he was clearly better statistically than Fox is so far this year? (I know…era, small sample size for Fox, etc) Just saying, I never had Kobe as the best player in the league and think there are a number of guys that would compete against him in this tier IMO. He clearly was never as good a Jokic.

Top 3-4. He’d be the best perimeter player in the league.

Btw, if you are trying to compare stats 1:1 from 2023 vs the early 2000s or 2006, you’re not being serious.

2nd behind Jokic

4-5th.. Definitely first team all-nba.

SNPA wrote:

Colbinii wrote:I voted Top 10. I could see him finishing as high as #2 in a POY ballot [injuries preventing Jokic from being #1 could put Kobe #1]. I can also see players like Giannis, Embiid, Curry, LeBron, Haliburton, SGA and Booker ahead of him.

I voted top 5 but have questions like you.

For example, what seasons did Kobe have where he was clearly better statistically than Fox is so far this year? (I know…era, small sample size for Fox, etc) Just saying, I never had Kobe as the best player in the league and think there are a number of guys that would compete against him in this tier IMO. He clearly was never as good a Jokic.

NBA today average 115 points a game. When Kobe averaged 35, NBA average 106 points. Adjusted for today Kobe would average 38.4 points a game.

Average TS% in 2006 was 53.6%, today its 57.7%. Kobe was +2.3 TS%, which would put him right at 60 TS%.

Adjusted for pace inflation, Kobe's stats today would be 38.4/5.8/5 on 60 TS%.

Now tell me if Fox is close to that. Keep in mind this is also a perimeter oriented league, which we haven't adjusted for.

Top 2 only behind Jokic.

Asianiac_24 wrote:

SNPA wrote:

Colbinii wrote:I voted Top 10. I could see him finishing as high as #2 in a POY ballot [injuries preventing Jokic from being #1 could put Kobe #1]. I can also see players like Giannis, Embiid, Curry, LeBron, Haliburton, SGA and Booker ahead of him.

I voted top 5 but have questions like you.

For example, what seasons did Kobe have where he was clearly better statistically than Fox is so far this year? (I know…era, small sample size for Fox, etc) Just saying, I never had Kobe as the best player in the league and think there are a number of guys that would compete against him in this tier IMO. He clearly was never as good a Jokic.

NBA today average 115 points a game. When Kobe averaged 35, NBA average 106 points. Adjusted for today Kobe would average 38.4 points a game.

Average TS% in 2006 was 53.6%, today its 57.7%. Kobe was +2.3 TS%, which would put him right at 60 TS%.

Adjusted for pace inflation, Kobe's stats today would be 38.4/5.8/5 on 60 TS%.

Now tell me if Fox is close to that. Keep in mind this is also a perimeter oriented league, which we haven't adjusted for.

Efficiency isn't linear. Just because someone was a +5% TS% in one era doesn't mean they automatically are +5% TS% in every era.

Well, I think I'd take Jokic over him pretty comfortably. Giannis, Luka, and Kobe would be my next three, likely in that order.

Asianiac_24 wrote:
NBA today average 115 points a game. When Kobe averaged 35, NBA average 106 points. Adjusted for today Kobe would average 38.4 points a game.

Average TS% in 2006 was 53.6%, today its 57.7%. Kobe was +2.3 TS%, which would put him right at 60 TS%.

Adjusted for pace inflation, Kobe's stats today would be 38.4/5.8/5 on 60 TS%.

Now tell me if Fox is close to that. Keep in mind this is also a perimeter oriented league, which we haven't adjusted for.

Only issue is that was one year for Kobe. Kobe wasn't putting up 35ppg every year from 01-12. Also, you can't naturally assume that a guy's rts carries over from his period to any era you put him in. I mean maybe it does in Kobe's case but I don't think you can just assume it would. Having said that, I do think he probably puts up SGA type numbers now.

Asianiac_24 wrote:

SNPA wrote:

Colbinii wrote:I voted Top 10. I could see him finishing as high as #2 in a POY ballot [injuries preventing Jokic from being #1 could put Kobe #1]. I can also see players like Giannis, Embiid, Curry, LeBron, Haliburton, SGA and Booker ahead of him.

I voted top 5 but have questions like you.

For example, what seasons did Kobe have where he was clearly better statistically than Fox is so far this year? (I know…era, small sample size for Fox, etc) Just saying, I never had Kobe as the best player in the league and think there are a number of guys that would compete against him in this tier IMO. He clearly was never as good a Jokic.

NBA today average 115 points a game. When Kobe averaged 35, NBA average 106 points. Adjusted for today Kobe would average 38.4 points a game.

Average TS% in 2006 was 53.6%, today its 57.7%. Kobe was +2.3 TS%, which would put him right at 60 TS%.

Adjusted for pace inflation, Kobe's stats today would be 38.4/5.8/5 on 60 TS%.

Now tell me if Fox is close to that. Keep in mind this is also a perimeter oriented league, which we haven't adjusted for.

I’m not sure about the mathematical adjustments crediting Kobe but it doesn’t matter…see bolded word.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:

Asianiac_24 wrote:
NBA today average 115 points a game. When Kobe averaged 35, NBA average 106 points. Adjusted for today Kobe would average 38.4 points a game.

Average TS% in 2006 was 53.6%, today its 57.7%. Kobe was +2.3 TS%, which would put him right at 60 TS%.

Adjusted for pace inflation, Kobe's stats today would be 38.4/5.8/5 on 60 TS%.

Now tell me if Fox is close to that. Keep in mind this is also a perimeter oriented league, which we haven't adjusted for.

Only issue is that was one year for Kobe. Kobe wasn't putting up 35ppg every year from 01-12. Also, you can't naturally assume that a guy's rts carries over from his period to any era you put him in. I mean maybe it does in Kobe's case but I don't think you can just assume it would. Having said that, I do think he probably puts up SGA type numbers now.

The question says peak Kobe. 2006 Kobe to me was peak Kobe. But if you want to use 2007 Kobe, Kobe average 31.6 PPG on +4 TS%. Kobe averaged more points, on higher adjusted shooting percentage, shooting more "grenade" shots (shots taken with 5 seconds or less on the clock) than anyone in the league, in a league with slower pace. How is Fox even comparable?

We can't assume the stats will carry over, but Kobe was a superstar wing and tailor made for today's perimeter oriented game. I mean, Demar Derozan averaged 28 ppg just 2 years ago, and he is basically a homeless version of Kobe.

Colbinii wrote:

Asianiac_24 wrote:

SNPA wrote:I voted top 5 but have questions like you.

For example, what seasons did Kobe have where he was clearly better statistically than Fox is so far this year? (I know…era, small sample size for Fox, etc) Just saying, I never had Kobe as the best player in the league and think there are a number of guys that would compete against him in this tier IMO. He clearly was never as good a Jokic.

NBA today average 115 points a game. When Kobe averaged 35, NBA average 106 points. Adjusted for today Kobe would average 38.4 points a game.

Average TS% in 2006 was 53.6%, today its 57.7%. Kobe was +2.3 TS%, which would put him right at 60 TS%.

Adjusted for pace inflation, Kobe's stats today would be 38.4/5.8/5 on 60 TS%.

Now tell me if Fox is close to that. Keep in mind this is also a perimeter oriented league, which we haven't adjusted for.

Efficiency isn't linear. Just because someone was a +5% TS% in one era doesn't mean they automatically are +5% TS% in every era.

No, but it’s beyond undeniable that 2020s offenses, coaching, refereeing, and roster construction have been constructed to facilitate far more open courts, faster pace, and efficient scoring (especially for perimeter players) than ever before.

Donovan Spida Mitchell scored 28 on 61% TS last year. A roughly similar player, we can use him as a rough avatar for Gen Z Kobe.

As much of a chucker as Kobe was, his shot diet and understanding of defenses far surpasses what Mitchell brings to the table. He’s more athletic than Mitchell, a better finisher, a better shot creator, and imo just flat out better in every aspect of the game than Spida except for maybe long distance 3 pointers.

If Donovan Mitchell can do that in 2022-23 there is simply no way Peak Kobe isn’t doing that and more.

Asianiac_24 wrote:
The question says peak Kobe. 2006 Kobe to me was peak Kobe. But if you want to use 2007 Kobe, Kobe average 31.6 PPG on +4 TS%. Kobe averaged more points, on higher adjusted shooting percentage, shooting more "grenade" shots (shots taken with 5 seconds or less on the clock) than anyone in the league, in a league with slower pace. How is Fox even comparable?

We can't assume the stats will carry over, but Kobe was a superstar wing and tailor made for today's perimeter oriented game. I mean, Demar Derozan averaged 28 ppg just 2 years ago, and he is basically a homeless version of Kobe.

ok but I didn't bring up Fox(whose sample this year is still way too small to use for him imo). I'm just saying I'm not sure you can just scale a 35ppg season up along with the rts. Not like I'm saying Kobe would be a stiff now. I think he'd put up SGA type numbers. I think he could probably do 33-35ppg but it would require a certain type of situation with hardly any help on offense.

I voted top 3. Kobe was very consistent in ‘09 between the regular season and playoffs. If you look at the top 5 players in the NBA so far this season (Jokic, Embiid, SGA, Hali, LeBron), the only one you can really trust to come through in the postseason is Jokic.