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Continuation of the GOAT skills series. Next up is footwork.

Who would you say has the GOAT footwork? Not just in post moves, but overall package of moves. For this one, give your top big man and top perimeter player.

GOAT Skills Series:
GOAT Passing
GOAT Post Defense
GOAT Offensive Rebounding

A Hakeem thread.

This is basically Kobe Bryant & Hakeem Olajuwon

Al Jefferson

Bobby Jones. Not so much offensive as he was not a post scorer but defensively he was so good at always being squared up, cheating to the play, keeping guys off their spots, fronting and playing a bit off to the size to be able to affect passing into the post, and though he had great leaping and good quickness for his size, it was mainly footwork. I tend to think the differentiation between great and good is wider defensively than offensively as it is much easier to teach and coach offensive footwork, particularly in the post.

Best little guy like this I would guess would be Joe Dumars though Tony Allen might be better.

Offensively, Hakeem and Kareem get most of the talk, Tim Duncan is another one. In terms of non-post offensive footwork, I think mainly of guys who are really good at getting to the open spot and moving without the ball like Klay Thompson.

Big man - Hakeem, but Kevin McHale deserves an honorable mention. Hakeem combined his soccer skills, misdirection and impeccable timing on his blocks due to his handball skills. There's a reason both post and perimeter players went to train with him.

Perimeter - Tough one but I'd go with Gary Payton, primariy for his defensive footwork. He knew the intricacies of hand checking, leverage, physical play, deflections, fighting screens, reading the defense and even post-up play on offense. He taught defensive lessons to a young Kobe and KG who became better defenders as a result.

Antawn Jamison, Luis Scola

Bigs: Hakeem and McHale
Perimeter: Kobe

Bigs: Hakeem, McHale, Jokic

Perimeter: Jordan, Kobe, Luka, Curry

Kyrie easily for perimeter offensive footwork.

When you are talking about perimeter offensive footwork, what are you actually talking about. Both Kobe and Kyrie are better on ball players but my perception of their strengths were in using body control to get off tough shots and ball handling more than anything footwork related in the sense of positioning and the like.

penbeast0 wrote:When you are talking about perimeter offensive footwork, what are you actually talking about. Both Kobe and Kyrie are better on ball players but my perception of their strengths were in using body control to get off tough shots and ball handling more than anything footwork related in the sense of positioning and the like.

Similar thought. I think there are stronger contributors to perimeter players when taking into account ball handing and shot making than simply footwork.

Kyrie has GOAT level handles and body control (also evident with his finishes in the lane) - Great footwork is required however It's not as big of a contributor as Footwork would be in the Post imo.

Ginobili? Seemed like he got a lot of mileage out of efficient footwork.

Hakeem, McHale, Al Jefferson. Those guys come to mind immediately.

Jordan and Kobe had impeccable footwork. Manu was pretty damned good.

Lots of great mentions ITT. Hard to pin one down.

tsherkin wrote:Hakeem, McHale, Al Jefferson. Those guys come to mind immediately.

Jordan and Kobe had impeccable footwork. Manu was pretty damned good.

Lots of great mentions ITT. Hard to pin one down.

Are you talking offensive or defensive footwork? If offensively for perimeter players, are you talking on ball or off? And I never saw Jordan as having particularly inspired footwork, maybe because when he was young, it seemed like he would just go up in the air and just hang there while his opponents fell back to earth, then shoot.

Old Jordan with his stop and pop was a crafty guy; Washington Jordan with his post-up game didn't impress me much.

Among lesser known guys (offense only):

Bigs: Willis Reed (excellent footwork)
Forwards: Adrian Dantley (how nobody mentioned him yet?)
Guards: Paul Westphal (very Manu-esque)

Also, only one mention of Jokic here is strange, Joker's footwork is nothing short of incredible. Unless you want to talk about his defensive footwork, then it's another story.

It's interesting that offensive footwork rarely translates in defense. Most of players with top notch footwork on offense usually are not that good at using his feet on defense. I have no idea why.

penbeast0 wrote:And I never saw Jordan as having particularly inspired footwork, maybe because when he was young, it seemed like he would just go up in the air and just hang there while his opponents fell back to earth, then shoot.

I'm thinking Old Jordan.

Old Jordan with his stop and pop was a crafty guy; Washington Jordan with his post-up game didn't impress me much.

He had excellent footwork. There's a difference, however, between fancy and effective. And then you get someone like Big Al, who had such phenomenal footwork that he SHOT himself in the foot by gaining clear separation for a bunch of relatively low-percentage shots, heh.

But yes, I agree, Old Jordan, like second three-peat MJ, was very different from his younger self in terms of footwork. When I speak highly of his footwork, I'm thinking of 96 and later, when he realized his quickness wasn't the same and he was REALLY leveraging his J.

And Jordan's post game in Washington was excellent. His percentages reflect that. But he wasn't able to generate enough shots at the rim, or draw enough fouls, to drive his broader efficiency. And the Wizards just sucked horridly around him, so he also had no real passing support of consequence. Particularly in the second year, when Chris Whitney was gone and they had Ty Lue and Larry Hughes instead.

But even in the first three-peat, he had a great reverse pivot, and he had excellent duck-ins from the mid/low post. He had good footwork on his drives. He was ALSO able to bail himself out with elevation and raw speed, but his athleticism overshadows a lot of the fundamental stuff which he also did, especially in the 90s versus the 80s.

70sFan wrote:Also, only one mention of Jokic here is strange, Joker's footwork is nothing short of incredible. Unless you want to talk about his defensive footwork, then it's another story.

It's interesting that offensive footwork rarely translates in defense. Most of players with top notch footwork on offense usually are not that good at using his feet on defense. I have no idea why.

Jokic is phenomenal in this regard.

As to offensive footwork and defense, one difference you can consider is proactive versus reactive. Offense is proactive; you provoke the defense, probe and taunt. On the other side of things, you're forever reacting to the offense, so all of that intention is different. At some point, you're mitigating options and then praying you can athletically matchup if you're out on the perimeter, or that your help is there.

tsherkin wrote:

70sFan wrote:Also, only one mention of Jokic here is strange, Joker's footwork is nothing short of incredible. Unless you want to talk about his defensive footwork, then it's another story.

It's interesting that offensive footwork rarely translates in defense. Most of players with top notch footwork on offense usually are not that good at using his feet on defense. I have no idea why.

Jokic is phenomenal in this regard.

As to offensive footwork and defense, one difference you can consider is proactive versus reactive. Offense is proactive; you provoke the defense, probe and taunt. On the other side of things, you're forever reacting to the offense, so all of that intention is different. At some point, you're mitigating options and then praying you can athletically matchup if you're out on the perimeter, or that your help is there.

He’s got ballerina feet. Jokic can be very quick in spots but he’s slow in space. I see him routinely beat bigs in the high post but he’ll get blown by when he’s on an island at the 3 pt line.