In a draft - Nikola Jokic vs Victor Wembanyama

[durantbird]

You have both of them signed to a draft in the beginning of their career. Assuming you know everything about them you know now, who are you picking to build your team?

[EmpireFalls]

Wemby #1, and then steal Jokic at the top of the 2nd.

[The Master]

Jokic, he's a proven ~top10 player of all-time talent (at worst) once he gets some respectable longevity, there are many things (especially health-wise) that can happen to Wemby.

Wemby is impressively agile and durable, at least at this point of his career, but I can imagine him turning out as injury-prone and people going 'oh, he just couldn't stay healthy with all the pace and his style of play', so it's not a given.

[HeartBreakKid]

Jokic easily. He's already the best player, and he was a good player since the start more or less.

[The-Power]

Jokic for sure. Just too much of a proven commodity right now in comparison to Victor. I don't think it would be reasonable to pick against an ATG, best player in the league, with good prime health for the hope that the other option is even better (even though it is a clear possibility for Victor).

[1993Playoffs]

I’d take my chances with Wemby.

The defensive potential and his overall potential exceeds Jokic

[ShotCreator]

I just want to note how good Jokić was as a rookie and as a second year player. He was totally sabotaged especially in his first year being played next to Jusuf Nurkic. By his second year he was clearly MVP level or fringe MVP level.

His rookie year he completely busted all advanced and impact metrics. And 2015-16 was pre-space and place and essentially a traditional league so his defensive impact was much stronger along with the offensive skill.


All this is to say, Wemby being a better rookie is not a definite for me. He had a better season undoubtably but not without far superior circumstances and having a team catering to him and actually developing him.


And 17 Jokic is clearly superior to him IMO. I was falling for the Wemby hype a bit, but now with this perspective, I don’t consider Wemby’s destiny to be a GOAT level peak and prime with a certainty. Rookies can be really developed. Jokic was one.

[Colbinii]

Jokic was so good his 1st and 2nd year. Victor is tremendous, but Jokic was just as good.

Jokic was an MVP candidate in year 4 [Age 23 season] and a weak MVP candidate in his 2nd year [In terms of level of play, not how he was portrayed at the time].

[AdagioPace]

the only things Wemby has in his favour are hype/potential and his rookie season, which doesn't matter if the "scouting report" on Jokic corresponds to his entire career.
Unless we have a blind faith about Wemby being the ultimate, terminal station of basketball as we know it.......it's Jokic, but it could be Dirk or Kobe (MVP players with a long amazing career)

[Ian Scuffling]

What I know, now? Jokic no question. On potential? Victor no question. Either way, that's a great decision to have to make.

[Franco]

I’d take my chances with Wemby.

The defensive potential and his overall potential exceeds Jokic

This is the NBA equivalent of passing on a 500K/y job with benefit in exchange for 10 thousand lottery tickets.

[LukaTheGOAT]

This question will really come down to more if Wembanyama will be more of a Garnett level scorer in the PS or closer or a Dirk level one. If he really could get to Dirk levels, then I think the projected passing and defense would be enough to take him for prime. Jokic is less of a durability risk probably, so assuming he doesn't get tired of playing, he could have insane longevity.

[GSP]

I just want to note how good Jokić was as a rookie and as a second year player. He was totally sabotaged especially in his first year being played next to Jusuf Nurkic. By his second year he was clearly MVP level or fringe MVP level.

His rookie year he completely busted all advanced and impact metrics. And 2015-16 was pre-space and place and essentially a traditional league so his defensive impact was much stronger along with the offensive skill.


All this is to say, Wemby being a better rookie is not a definite for me. He had a better season undoubtably but not without far superior circumstances and having a team catering to him and actually developing him.


And 17 Jokic is clearly superior to him IMO. I was falling for the Wemby hype a bit, but now with this perspective, I don’t consider Wemby’s destiny to be a GOAT level peak and prime with a certainty. Rookies can be really developed. Jokic was one.

Historical revionism is nasty

Absolutely not a soul was arguing Jokic was Mvp level his 2nd year. Would gladly eat crow if you could pull up a post of you in 2017 even entertaining that idea. He was fantastic allstar level already but Mvp? Get real

[Colbinii]

I just want to note how good Jokić was as a rookie and as a second year player. He was totally sabotaged especially in his first year being played next to Jusuf Nurkic. By his second year he was clearly MVP level or fringe MVP level.

His rookie year he completely busted all advanced and impact metrics. And 2015-16 was pre-space and place and essentially a traditional league so his defensive impact was much stronger along with the offensive skill.


All this is to say, Wemby being a better rookie is not a definite for me. He had a better season undoubtably but not without far superior circumstances and having a team catering to him and actually developing him.


And 17 Jokic is clearly superior to him IMO. I was falling for the Wemby hype a bit, but now with this perspective, I don’t consider Wemby’s destiny to be a GOAT level peak and prime with a certainty. Rookies can be really developed. Jokic was one.

Historical revionism is nasty

Absolutely not a soul was arguing Jokic was Mvp level his 2nd year. Would gladly eat crow if you could pull up a post of you in 2017 even entertaining that idea. He was fantastic allstar level already but Mvp? Get real

First of all, we can look back and say "you know what, since both the box-score and impact says Jokic is ~Top 10 in 2017, it is fair to see he was MVP Caliber, even if nobody was really saying it at the time. Why? Because Jokic wasn't an early pick in the draft. He was better in his 2nd season than Rose was in his MVP season

Absolutely Jokic
Just going by impact he's an mvp caliber player and he's only 21

[theonlyclutch]

I just want to note how good Jokić was as a rookie and as a second year player. He was totally sabotaged especially in his first year being played next to Jusuf Nurkic. By his second year he was clearly MVP level or fringe MVP level.

His rookie year he completely busted all advanced and impact metrics. And 2015-16 was pre-space and place and essentially a traditional league so his defensive impact was much stronger along with the offensive skill.


All this is to say, Wemby being a better rookie is not a definite for me. He had a better season undoubtably but not without far superior circumstances and having a team catering to him and actually developing him.


And 17 Jokic is clearly superior to him IMO. I was falling for the Wemby hype a bit, but now with this perspective, I don’t consider Wemby’s destiny to be a GOAT level peak and prime with a certainty. Rookies can be really developed. Jokic was one.

Historical revionism is nasty

Absolutely not a soul was arguing Jokic was Mvp level his 2nd year. Would gladly eat crow if you could pull up a post of you in 2017 even entertaining that idea. He was fantastic allstar level already but Mvp? Get real

First of all, we can look back and say "you know what, since both the box-score and impact says Jokic is ~Top 10 in 2017, it is fair to see he was MVP Caliber, even if nobody was really saying it at the time. Why? Because Jokic wasn't an early pick in the draft. He was better in his 2nd season than Rose was in his MVP season

Absolutely Jokic
Just going by impact he's an mvp caliber player and he's only 21

Jokic played 28mpg on a team below .500, his impact stats were awesome when he played but the expectation then was that with higher minutes loads he may not look so impressive stats-wise...which was very much the case in '18, '19, and '20. Just because Jokic activated hax after that doesn't retroactively make his earlier seasons more "MVP-caliber".

[Doctor MJ]

You have both of them signed to a draft in the beginning of their career. Assuming you know everything about them you know now, who are you picking to build your team?

So, this is a thing where the amount we know about the veteran really helps eliminate concerns. We know that Jokic seems to be remarkably durable, for example, and we can't really know that about Wemby.

It's hard for me to imagine future prospects that look like Jokic & Wemby and not pick Wemby, but literally knowing what I know about Jokic, it's a guaranteed jackpot for a long, long time.

[Colbinii]

Historical revionism is nasty

Absolutely not a soul was arguing Jokic was Mvp level his 2nd year. Would gladly eat crow if you could pull up a post of you in 2017 even entertaining that idea. He was fantastic allstar level already but Mvp? Get real

First of all, we can look back and say "you know what, since both the box-score and impact says Jokic is ~Top 10 in 2017, it is fair to see he was MVP Caliber, even if nobody was really saying it at the time. Why? Because Jokic wasn't an early pick in the draft. He was better in his 2nd season than Rose was in his MVP season

Absolutely Jokic
Just going by impact he's an mvp caliber player and he's only 21

Jokic played 28mpg on a team below .500, his impact stats were awesome when he played but the expectation then was that with higher minutes loads he may not look so impressive stats-wise...which was very much the case in '18, '19, and '20. Just because Jokic activated hax after that doesn't retroactively make his earlier seasons more "MVP-caliber".

The expectation was Jokic couldn't win, and that was repeated heavily in basketball circles until he finally won.

The fact of the matter is Jokic was highly impactful in year 2 and was highly effective as a post-season player each post-season he played in. In 2019 Jokic posted a PS BPM of 11.6.

[Ol Roy]

Jokic and Wemby would be an incredibly synergistic duo.

[HeartBreakKid]

First of all, we can look back and say "you know what, since both the box-score and impact says Jokic is ~Top 10 in 2017, it is fair to see he was MVP Caliber, even if nobody was really saying it at the time. Why? Because Jokic wasn't an early pick in the draft. He was better in his 2nd season than Rose was in his MVP season

Jokic played 28mpg on a team below .500, his impact stats were awesome when he played but the expectation then was that with higher minutes loads he may not look so impressive stats-wise...which was very much the case in '18, '19, and '20. Just because Jokic activated hax after that doesn't retroactively make his earlier seasons more "MVP-caliber".

The expectation was Jokic couldn't win, and that was repeated heavily in basketball circles until he finally won.

The fact of the matter is Jokic was highly impactful in year 2 and was highly effective as a post-season player each post-season he played in. In 2019 Jokic posted a PS BPM of 11.6.

GSP was one of those guys who was saying Jokic was a loser and you can't win with him, so I am not surprised on the reaction of "no one thought Jokic was good back then" .

[durantbird]

If I asked this question in 2004 and it was between KG and LeBron, who would you think would've been your pick?