RealGM

Better 1 Year Peak: Steve Nash or James Harden

Finally someone Harden is better than. The last dozen times or so I saw this it was just a pathetic Harden defeat.

Harden's better.

He is almost essentially a taller, more athletic and stronger Steve Nash. And his defense while not great, has more value than Nash.

Hmm. I have to pick between a guy who made me stay up to watch Suns games whenever I could catch them because I loved the way the game was played when he ran the offense or a guy whos game is almost universally despised despite his gaudy numbers. That's a tough one.

You'd better ask who would you rather build your team around.

I'll take Nash every single time. And so would the other 14 players on that imaginary team.

This is basically a question on whether you value individual numbers over team play.

Prime Harden is underrated.

Calvin Klein wrote:You'd better ask who would you rather build your team around.

I'll take Nash every single time. And so would the other 14 players on that imaginary team.

This is basically a question on whether you value individual numbers over team play.

Nash can only play a ball dominant style of basketball at a high level (honestly even more so than Harden).

Nash was a bit overrated. He wasnt on that Kobe/Wade tier and Harden was for a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Harden is a lot closer to a neutral defender comparatively to Nash (putting it kindly), but Nash is just a bit better at most every offensive category that I'd probably give Nash the edge regardless. It's really close though

sikma42 wrote:

Calvin Klein wrote:You'd better ask who would you rather build your team around.

I'll take Nash every single time. And so would the other 14 players on that imaginary team.

This is basically a question on whether you value individual numbers over team play.

Nash can only play a ball dominant style of basketball at a high level (honestly even more so than Harden).

Nash was a bit overrated. He wasnt on that Kobe/Wade tier and Harden was for a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Nash was a point guard, not a two guard who got assists. So yeah, he had the ball a lot. When he was in Dallas, especially that weird 04 season, he was a willing off ball player and spot up shooter.

Harden's biggest flaws were apparent in his best seasons in Houston. He refused to let Chris Paul make the game easier for him, and instead relegated CP watching him dribble for 20 seconds.

Harden's prime is disrespected. The highlights are true savant level play. Yes the rule bending was also clear, but good lord, some of the passes, some of the plays, from a pure BBIQ perspective, are just out of this world.

Plus he was truly an elite finisher which was what actually made him so dangerous back then.

Harden was extremely ball dominant when he was lights out, but has recently exhibited decent distribution skills as his distance shooting and ability to draw fouls have leveled off. If Harden had distributed the ball more when he was lights out, he could have been historic. Nash fits the classic pg mode, whose competitive level was more dependent on the talent around him.

Harden clearly. But that’s not a shot at Nash.

I go Nash here. Peak Nash was just a better offensive player than peak Harden, and James Harden’s defense isn’t going to make up enough of a difference.

Just for reference on this, in the Engelmann RAPM, Harden’s overall RAPM in each season from 2013-2014 to 2018-2019 was (in chronological order): 2.59, 4.58, 3.63, 3.14, 3.18, and 2.50. Meanwhile, Nash’s overall RAPM in each season from 2004-2005 to 2009-2010 was (in chronological order): 5.00, 6.10, 7.03, 7.20, 6.63, and 6.23. Granted, that’s just one measure, and each year is probably not scaled exactly the same so perhaps can’t be directly compared with reliability, but that’s a big and consistent difference. And the cause of the difference in that data is basically that their DRAPMs are similarly bad while Nash’s ORAPM is at a different level. Which, importantly, I think comports with at least my eye test, in which I saw Steve Nash be an otherworldly top-tier GOAT-offensive-player candidate, while Harden wasn’t at that level, and then they’re both not at all good defenders (with Harden having more defensive tools but putting in less effort).

The key thing that separates the two are the playoffs where Nash got consistently better by a good amount and Harden gets consistently worse. A big reason being that Nash never relied on a soft whistle and is one of the greatest on-ball shot creators that we’ve ever seen.

If you respect numbers in the boxscore - Harden
If you love and watch the game - Nash

Damn, one of the biggest what-ifs that I've seen was CP3 not being healthy in 2018.

122.3 ORTG with CP3/JH13 on a court (+14 rORTG) in RS
One game away from eliminating Warriors' super team

It's so funny how external variables dictate how NBA discourse looks like, because imagine such topics if he hadn't gotten injured in that year's playoffs - and it's completely irrelevant to the Harden's overall level of play that season.

No disrespect to Steve Nash, the comparison is close in general, but JHs peak would've been so great in terms of overall people's perception if they had pulled that off. We would be talking about him as an imperfect playoff performer, but capable of leading his team to the championship alongside another all-star-level guard, playing efficiently on historical usage, with great floor/ceiling-raising combination.

Will that be 05 or 06 Nash vs 17 Harden?

I think Harden was a better version of Nash imo. His peak seasons are pretty incredible

another case of realgm

ignoring the advanced stats and prefering playstayles over basic common sense

NBA4Lyfe wrote:another case of realgm

ignoring the advanced stats and prefering playstayles over basic common sense

What non-box score data are you looking at that you see as common sense?