Post#5 » by trex_8063 » Sun May 5, 2024 6:31 pm
On the topic of Chris Bosh.....
I'm going to come at it from a different angle, that of sort of arbitrary (though nonetheless relevant [perhaps]) benchmarks or thresholds......and then whittle things down by adding other thresholds. Yes, again I acknowledge this is arbitrary, and even a bit cherry-picky; yet some of the thresholds have been expressly cited as important or relevant to various posters.
Additionally, I think it can scarcely be denied that, once a few are layered on top of each other, we're talking about a pretty historically relevant player.......
How many NON-inducted players ever received 11 [or more] All-Star selections?
Just one: Chris Bosh
No additional whittling necessary; he is the stand-alone among all non-inducted players in this. I realize that's just a media-awarded accolade, which is frequently mis-assigned; however, his 11 nods is not like Kobe's 9 All-Defensive Team honours, nor even like Gary Payton's 9 All-D honours: most of them are legitimately earned.
So let's use the same starter, but make it a little wider/more permissive.....
How many NON-inducted players ever received 10 [or more] All-Star selection?
Three: Hal Greer, Carmelo Anthony, and Chris Bosh.
How many of ^^^those also have an All-NBA honour? All three, so that doesn't narrow the field.
How many of them also won a chip [as a starter, no less]? Two: Hal Greer and Chris Bosh.
How many of them won TWO titles as a starter? Only Chris Bosh.
Or suppose we leave it at the threshold of ONE title [still have Bosh and Greer], but then for the other NON era-relativists ask: which of those careers occurred in the post-merger era? Again, only Chris Bosh.
fwiw, I could widen the All-Star requirement to 9, but that adds only ONE player to the starting pool [Lenny Wilkens], and he would be eliminated by any one of the follow-up categories (no All-NBA honours, no titles, did not play in post-merger league).
How many NON-inducted players scored at least 17,000 career pts and had at least 26,000 pts+reb+ast?
Ok, actually quite a few (32, to be precise), though some of the names constitute some pretty strong company:
George McGinnis, Spencer Haywood, Grant Hill, Chris Webber, Kevin Willis, Otis Thorpe, Rudy Gay, Bailey Howell, Lenny Wilkens, Dave Bing, Zach Randolph, Chet Walker, Jason Terry, Reggie Theus, Gail Goodrich, Eddie Johnson, Terry Cummings, Walter Davis, Clifford Robinson, Bernard King, Antawn Jamison, Tom Chambers, Joe Johnson, Mitch Richmond, Walt Bellamy, Hal Greer, DeMar DeRozan, LaMarcus Aldridge, Alex English, Dan Issel, Carmelo Anthony......and Chris Bosh.
Now, I could again utilize the "who has a title [as a starter]" question, and that's going to narrow the field DRAMATICALLY (I think down to just six: Chet Walker, Hal Greer [same team as Walker], Gail Goodrich, Jason Terry, Bailey Howell, and Chris Bosh). And if I stipulated TWO titles, then it's down to just Bosh and Howell (and only one of them was in the post-merger era)......
Or I could use some threshold of All-Stars or All-NBAs again, too.....
But let's instead use another statistical requirement; how about something that hones in on efficiency (since we're starting with a field based upon mass of box production)?
I could go with turnover economy; something like fewer than 2,000 career TO's [Bosh had just 1,807, btw]. That would also narrow the field substantially (Aldridge still makes the cut easily, but most do not). However, we don't have turnover data for the old guys.
So we'll use relative shooting efficiency: how many of those 32 players ALSO had a positive career TS Add (like even +0.1)?
Well, now the field's down to 22, because the following are all removed: LaMarcus Aldridge [barely, though again: TO's], George McGinnis, Chris Webber, Kevin Willis, Rudy Gay, Eddie Johnson, Terry Cummings, Clifford Robinson, Antawn Jamison, and Joe Johnson.
To whittle further, how about a more relevant positive TS Add?......How many of those 22 would still remain if we required at least 500 TS Add?
Down to a pool of just 14 [slightly more distinguished] players: Grant Hill, Otis Thorpe, Bailey Howell, Lenny Wilkens, Chet Walker, Jason Terry, Hal Greer, Walter Davis, Bernard King [very turnover-prone, however], Mitch Richmond, Walt Bellamy, Alex English, Dan Issel.....and Chris Bosh.
What about at least 1000 TS Add?
Now it's just six: Otis Thorpe, Bailey Howell, Chet Walker, Walt Bellamy, Dan Issel, and Chris Bosh.
How many of those six won a title?
Bailey Howell, Chet Walker, and Chris Bosh.
How many won TWO? Bailey Howell and Chris Bosh.
How many in the post-merger era? Or with 9+ All-Star selections, etc (you get the point)? Only Chris Bosh
His career by the box-aggregates looks like this:
20.6 PER, .159 WS/48, +1.9 BPM, all with a CAREER average of 35.8 mpg (nearly 32k career minutes).
In the playoffs:
18.4 PER, .144 WS/48, +1.8 BPM (in 35.2 mpg) [fwiw, "Big Game James" career playoffs: 18.3 PER, .135 WS/48, +2.9 BPM]
In career [playoff included] vanilla RAPM is +5.0 (tied for 51st among all players '97-'24 (28 most recent years of NBA history: comprises half [just OVER half, I believe] of all player-seasons played in NBL/BAA/NBA/ABA from '47 to present), this while averaging higher mpg than most of those ahead of him, more career minutes than half of the field ahead of him, too.
To me, he's just such an easy inclusion in the top 100. I don't think there is anyone left who can match the combination of:
peak play
overall prime/career player quality
versatility/adaptability and spacing
longevity
strong box production and aggragates
strong impact signals
individual accomplishment
team accomplishment
quality as a teammate, etc
......that Bosh's career entails. All in a super-competitive era, too.
His candidacy is almost glaringly obvious to me.
VOTE: Chris Bosh
Alternate vote: James Worthy
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire