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DorianRo wrote:Magic won 2 titles. Joker can't even get by 50 win teams. To be honest they were lucky to even get by the Lakers this year.

DorianRo wrote:Magic won 2 titles in that timeframe. Joker can't even get by 50 win teams. To be honest they were lucky to even get by the Lakers this year. Lakers were in position in almost all the games to take them

DorianRo wrote:Magic won 2 titles in that timeframe. Joker can't even get by 50 win teams. To be honest they were lucky to even get by the Lakers this year. Lakers were in position in almost all the games to take them

DorianRo wrote:Magic won 2 titles in that timeframe. Joker can't even get by 50 win teams. To be honest they were lucky to even get by the Lakers this year. Lakers were in position in almost all the games to take them

OhayoKD wrote:Never beat a 50-win team is dumb when the Clippers were at a near 60-win pace

ty 4191 wrote:How many players, period, have had a 4 year offensive peak like Jokic? Not just centers!

Updated 5/24/24:

Consider that in the past 341 games (including the playoffs, dating back to the beginning of 2020-2021), Jokic has put up a slash line of:

26.6/12.3/8.6 on +8.7 Relative True Shooting% (rTS%) (while also, incidentally, leading all centers in steals by a massive margin):

The only player in NBA history to put up a slash line of 26.6/12.3/8.6 in ANY SINGLE 82 game season is Oscar Robertson, all the way back in 61'-62', and he did it in a game that featured *127* possessions per game, playing *44* MPG.

Jokic, on the other hand, has done this in a league averaging only *99* possessions per game, and while playing only 34.6 MPG.

And, he's sustained it for 4 full seasons, including the playoffs.

That is truly astounding.

For those who prefer advanced metrics (that we have for all eras of the NBA), here are a few objective things to consider:

1. His 31.7 PER across the last 341 games stacks up against the best (single) seasons of Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, and LeBron James.

2. His BPM the last 4 full seasons is 12.3, which stacks up against anything Michael Jordan ever did in a (single) season. It falls top 5 all time among *single season* BPM totals.

3. His TS% of .656 would be third all time among all high volume 3 point shooters, such as himself (3+ 3PA/G). And again, that's compared to only an 82 game sample for the other players.

He's done all of this while shooting an outstanding .829 from the line, an incredible .365 from three point range on very high volume for a center (3.2/game).

Consider, too, that he's a 7 foot, 275+ lb center, not a small, adroit, shooting focused guard.

SportsGuru08 wrote:Magic. When Joker beats a 50-win team in a playoff series, I'll consider him.

tsherkin wrote:

SportsGuru08 wrote:Magic. When Joker beats a 50-win team in a playoff series, I'll consider him.

This is such an odd, empty and team-rooted criterion.

You remember how Kareem averaged 23/8/3 and won both an MVP and a Finals MVP in the first 7 years of playing with Magic? Or Jamaal Wilkes averaged 20.2 ppg and was a 2-time All-Star in his first half-decade with Magic? Or how Norm Nixon averaged 16.9 ppg and 7.9 apg alongside Magic for four years? Or how Michael Cooper was All-Defensive 1st Team five times and a DPOY once with Magic? And Byron Scott?

And you want to compare team-related success between these two?

That seems... short-sighted.

SportsGuru08 wrote:Magic won two Finals MVPs before Kareem's in '85, one of which came when Kareem was sitting at home for the clincher.

All those other guys you mentioned were on the team the year before Magic arrived and were beaten in the 2nd round in 5 games.