2009 Finals: Lakers vs Celtics (w/KG)

rand · Post #1 » by **rand** » Sat Jun 1, 2024 10:05 am

Who would have won the 2009 Finals had KG not gotten injured and the Celtics made it through the East?

migya · Post #2 » by **migya** » Sat Jun 1, 2024 10:21 am

With an improved Rondo and some others it's hard to see the Celts losing.

TheGOATRises007 · Post #3 » by **TheGOATRises007** » Sat Jun 1, 2024 10:33 am

Impossible to say to be honest.

I think it'd be much closer than 2008.

The Lakers were better in 2009 than 2010.

OhayoKD · Post #4 » by **OhayoKD** » Sat Jun 1, 2024 11:12 am

If everyone's healthy, Celtics might just dominate.

Doug_12 · Post #5 » by **Doug_12** » Sat Jun 1, 2024 4:15 pm

Probably goes to 7 games and can go either way, but I'm picking the Lakers.

That Lakers had a better inside presence with Pau picking up a tougher playoffs mentality and Bynum being available. The team was also looking for a revenge, while the Celtics came off of a championship season, had their big 3 became one year older and lost some key pieces of their bench.

SportsGuru08 · Post #6 » by **SportsGuru08** » Sun Jun 2, 2024 1:24 am

Even with Garnett, the Celtics had depth issues in '09, something the Lakers didn't have. Gasol was stronger both mentally and physically after being pushed around in '08, plus Ariza and Bynum were both available unlike the previous year.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #7 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Sun Jun 2, 2024 1:43 am

Maybe.

Garnett in particular looked to be having something like an MVP level season again in 09 before the injury.

Kevin Garnett Pre-Injury In 2008-09 (Per 75):

▪️21.1 PTS
▪️11.4 REB
▪️3.4 AST
▪️1.5 STL
▪️1.6 BLK
▪️56.3 TS% (+1.9 rTS%)
▪️Led Boston To A 44-13 Record (+10.1 NET) In Games Played
▪️Boston Went 18-7 W/ +4.2 Net Without KG

That's a significant drop in net rating, and they no longer had the look of an all-time team at that point.

The Boston Celtics had a +14.12 Net Rating (112.69 ORTG, 98.57 DRTG) with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

That's the 5th best offense in the league and the best defense in the NBA with those numbers.

The Celtics had a -9.8 rDRtg when KG played, I believe, so they looked like a GOAT-like modern defense.

An Unbiased Fan · Post #8 » by **An Unbiased Fan** » Sun Jun 2, 2024 10:05 pm

2009 was the best of those Laker squads. I don't think Boston gets past Cleveland, and def loses to LA in 5 or 6.

Smoothbutta · Post #9 » by **Smoothbutta** » Tue Jun 4, 2024 5:46 am

An Unbiased Fan wrote:2009 was the best of those Laker squads. I don't think Boston gets past Cleveland, and def loses to LA in 5 or 6.

I don't doubt you but what was better about 2009 Lakers than 2008 Lakers? Ariza, Farmar, and Bynum were one year older and better but that's relatively insignificant. Sasha was better in 2008 actually than 2009, and they had Vladimir in 08 which are also pretty small but cancels some of it perhaps.

My point is, wasn't Rondo's jump from 08 to 09 more impactful to the Celtics than any improvements the Lakers made?

And, Celtics were without Perkins entirely in game 5 where they lost by five points so it'd likely have been a 4-1 win in 2008 if they had him.

One_and_Done · Post #10 » by **One_and_Done** » Tue Jun 4, 2024 6:38 am

Kobe has 0 titles as the main man if KG doesn't get hurt in 09.

homecourtloss · Post #11 » by **homecourtloss** » Tue Jun 4, 2024 1:07 pm

LukaTheGOAT wrote:Maybe.

Garnett in particular looked to be having something like an MVP level season again in 09 before the injury.

Kevin Garnett Pre-Injury In 2008-09 (Per 75):

▪️21.1 PTS
▪️11.4 REB
▪️3.4 AST
▪️1.5 STL
▪️1.6 BLK
▪️56.3 TS% (+1.9 rTS%)
▪️Led Boston To A 44-13 Record (+10.1 NET) In Games Played
▪️Boston Went 18-7 W/ +4.2 Net Without KG

That's a significant drop in net rating, and they no longer had the look of an all-time team at that point.

The Boston Celtics had a +14.12 Net Rating (112.69 ORTG, 98.57 DRTG) with Kevin Garnett on the floor.

That's the 5th best offense in the league and the best defense in the NBA with those numbers.

The Celtics had a -9.8 rDRtg when KG played, I believe, so they looked like a GOAT-like modern defense.

2009 KG was a continuation of 2008 KG before the injury—it would have been really interesting to see how the playoffs turned out if he had been healthy.

An Unbiased Fan · Post #12 » by **An Unbiased Fan** » Tue Jun 4, 2024 6:46 pm

Smoothbutta wrote:
An Unbiased Fan wrote:2009 was the best of those Laker squads. I don't think Boston gets past Cleveland, and def loses to LA in 5 or 6.

I don't doubt you but what was better about 2009 Lakers than 2008 Lakers? Ariza, Farmar, and Bynum were one year older and better but that's relatively insignificant. Sasha was better in 2008 actually than 2009, and they had Vladimir in 08 which are also pretty small but cancels some of it perhaps.

My point is, wasn't Rondo's jump from 08 to 09 more impactful to the Celtics than any improvements the Lakers made?

And, Celtics were without Perkins entirely in game 5 where they lost by five points so it'd likely have been a 4-1 win in 2008 if they had him.

Pau was better, Ariza would be there, and their support was better in 2009.

As for Rondo, Kobe was always able to guard and handle him

DirtyDez · Post #13 » by **DirtyDez** » Tue Jun 4, 2024 9:01 pm

Perkins and Big Baby were playing 36 mpg each in the playoffs so it would’ve made a huge difference. Celtics in 7.

SK21209 · Post #14 » by **SK21209** » Wed Jun 5, 2024 7:11 pm

Fwiw the Lakers beat them twice in the 08-09 regular season, and this was when we actually got legit barometer games in the regular season. Once on Christmas Day when the Celtics were 24-3 and once in February also pre-Garnett injury.

When we could match the Celtics' size we tended to do well against them. Having Bynum to at the very least give us 15 or so minutes against their frontline was huge. Having Ariza to match up physically with Pierce was huge because Walton and Vlad could not do it. Kobe played the free safety role defensively well when he was matched up with Rondo.