What would it take for the 2024 Celtics to be in all time team discussions?

[LA Bird]

Maybe a bit late but wanted to get the thread out before the Finals start. They are 5th all time in regular season SRS and have been dominant through the first three series. Obviously, if they lose the Finals, nobody would care about this team in a historical sense. But if they crush the Mavs by say 10 MOV, do you see them being one of the best teams ever or will the lack of top end MVP talent hold them back regardless? Do you wait for future championship success from this same core before crowning this team as a top 10 team of all time?

For comparison, here is a list of 10 SRS title teams and their SRS equivalent in each series
71 Bucks: +11.91 RS, +14.6 / +16.2 / +12.3 PO
96 Bulls: +11.80 RS, +27.2 / +9.2 / +25.0 / +12.0 PO
72 Lakers: +11.65 RS, +17.3 / +8.7 / +6.3 PO
17 Warriors: +11.35 RS, +17.4 / +19.6 / +22.8 / +9.6 PO
24 Celtics: +10.74 RS, +18.5 / +10.1 / +9.7 / ??? PO
97 Bulls: +10.70 RS, +8.7 / +14.6 / +16.0 / +8.8 PO
92 Bulls: +10.07 RS, +15.6 / +8.4 / +7.4 / +14.7 PO
15 Warriors: +10.01 RS, +9.6 / +12.4 / +12.1 / +11.8 PO

[DorianRo]

It would take alot (I can only judge from 80s and 90s on) but I don't see this Celtics team beats any of those 90's Bulls or even come close. or Any of the 2000's lakers or Spurs squads.

[An Unbiased Fan]

People need to stop trying to put everything in an all-time context. That's reserved for special situations.

[One_and_Done]

People need to stop trying to put everything in an all-time context. That's reserved for special situations.

This Celtics team would certainly have spanked the 2001 Lakers. Are the 01 Lakers a special team?

[capfan33]

A better #1 option.

[AEnigma]

Maybe a bit late but wanted to get the thread out before the Finals start. They are 5th all time in regular season SRS and have been dominant through the first three series. Obviously, if they lose the Finals, nobody would care about this team in a historical sense. But if they crush the Mavs by say 10 MOV, do you see them being one of the best teams ever or will the lack of top end MVP talent hold them back regardless? Do you wait for future championship success from this same core before crowning this team as a top 10 team of all time?

For comparison, here is a list of 10 SRS title teams and their SRS equivalent in each series
71 Bucks: +11.91 RS, +14.6 / +16.2 / +12.3 PO
96 Bulls: +11.80 RS, +27.2 / +9.2 / +25.0 / +12.0 PO
72 Lakers: +11.65 RS, +17.3 / +8.7 / +6.3 PO
17 Warriors: +11.35 RS, +17.4 / +19.6 / +22.8 / +9.6 PO
24 Celtics: +10.74 RS, +18.5 / +10.1 / +9.7 / ??? PO
97 Bulls: +10.70 RS, +8.7 / +14.6 / +16.0 / +8.8 PO
92 Bulls: +10.07 RS, +15.6 / +8.4 / +7.4 / +14.7 PO
15 Warriors: +10.01 RS, +9.6 / +12.4 / +12.1 / +11.8 PO

Well, in some sense simply winning the title would qualify them as one of the 20 best teams by almost any measure you care to use. You seem to be looking higher than that, but there I agree extended retrospection is needed. Right now I think they could sweep the Mavericks winning by over 20 points each game and not be nearly as elevated as the numbers might say they should be; people will not as readily dismiss those numbers if they repeat next year.

[Cavsfansince84]

Them having such an semi easy path to the finals isn't really helping even in spite of them looking good beating those teams. Now they are playing the 50 win Mavs. That's just not going to stand out historically speaking imo. Now like if said above they repeat next year in a somewhat similar way it becomes something else.

[LewisnotMiller]

Assuming a win this year (which I wouldn't), it would take them rolling through and winning next year, imho.

They are in no way near that rarified air yet.

[OhayoKD]

Winning this title by any margin would cement their place in the discussion. How high they go would depend on a combination of how much future success they have and how we rememeber the teams they've played(mainly the mavericks)

[lessthanjake]

Realistically, it’d depend somewhat on how easily they win this Finals series (assuming they win it at all!) and what they do in subsequent years.

That said, the OP asks us to assume they crush the Mavs by like 10 MOV (which they are at least on the path towards doing at this point). And to avoid subsequent years being too important, let’s posit that somehow they win the title and then somehow the team gets blown up immediately, such that we don’t get info either way from subsequent years. That won’t happen in reality, but let’s just assume it does, such that the 2024 Celtics are just a one-off team. How good would we say they are?

Well, to me, I’d say that in that scenario we’d be left with the 2024 Celtics vying for status as the best team ever. At that point, they’d be 5th all-time in regular-season SRS, and then be in the top 10 amongst title winners in playoff rNET. You’d only have the 1971 Bucks, 1996 Bulls, and 2017 Warriors as teams that are above them in both. I don’t really think they’d have a *good* argument for best team ever, but you’d be able to make a “modernist” argument for them.

[xb3at band1tx]

lets see them finish the series first

[Dr Positivity]

I’m probably not putting them higher than 15 Warriors regardless of result. It’s hard to take a lot from running through an injured East and they’re a bad matchup for Dallas.

[f4p]

a time machine to play something other than the worst combined 3 opponents to ever make the finals***.



***statement unverified but 4 combined games of donovan mitchell and tyrese halliburton as your highest end competition isn't gonna get it done.

[Slax]

a time machine to play something other than the worst combined 3 opponents to ever make the finals***.



***statement unverified but 4 combined games of donovan mitchell and tyrese halliburton as your highest end competition isn't gonna get it done.

Nah the 1987 Lakers (who in fact generally appear on great all time team lists) had an easier path to the finals, then won against a banged up Celtics team. Besides that, every team that made the finals from the Eastern Conference in the early 2000's had easier opponents. Obviously it gives fewer opportunities to prove yourself, but you can't choose your opponents.

[Colbinii]

They would need to repeat in 2024-2025.

Already a borderline Top 10 team without much thought, but I would like to see them really face a battle-tested gauntlet like what Dallas has faced.

[durantbird]

People need to stop trying to put everything in an all-time context. That's reserved for special situations.

What makes a special situation special?

[Colbinii]

People need to stop trying to put everything in an all-time context. That's reserved for special situations.

What makes a special situation special?

This Boston team is quite special

[Narigo]

Hard to say. Their competition was kinda weak

[Djoker]

If they finish the job against Dallas, I'd say they have a solid case for top 10 all time. This is a really good team. Weak competition or not, they pasted that competition. It's not like Mitchell or Hali playing a few more games would have flipped those series.

[Cavsfansince84]

If they finish the job against Dallas, I'd say they have a solid case for top 10 all time. This is a really good team. Weak competition or not, they pasted that competition. It's not like Mitchell or Hali playing a few more games would have flipped those series.

This statement seems like a bit of a conundrum to me. Dominance against roughly 50 win teams that are missing their best player for multiple games is not equivalent to dominance against 55+ win teams that are mostly healthy. It just isn't. The best team by srs that the Celtics will have beaten would be the 2.8 srs Pacers. I think inferring that as true serves no real purpose in comparing atg teams because a. overall dominance(including the rs) and b. competition of teams faced are the two biggest factors used on top of c. which is the level of talent on the team. It's not a matter of flipping a series either so much as it just impacts how their dominance is perceived after the fact. Nothing against this Celtics team because I would say the same thing about last year's Nuggets team as well which is that they faced somewhat weak competition. If we are comparing every championship team since 1948 the bar is extremely high to be seen as a top 10 team out of those 77 teams.