Build your best team under realistic parameters

[lessthanjake]

So I think this is a fun exercise: Try to create the best team of 12 players you can—for a few seasons (so don’t factor in longevity much) with everyone generally in their prime and reasonably healthy, and let’s generally assume the current era’s ruleset—using any players in NBA history, but subject to the following parameters, which are aimed at making the teams somewhat realistic:

You have to choose players based on the following limitations, which I conceptualize as leaving us with five tiers of players to choose:

Parameters for Team Building

- Tier A: You can only pick two players that are either in this board’s Top 100 list or are have been chosen for the Hall of Fame. Additionally, to make things more varied/interesting, you are not allowed to pick any player who was in the PC Board’s top 10 in the top 100 project. So this means you cannot have any of the following players: LeBron, Kareem, Jordan, Russell, Duncan, Hakeem, Wilt, Shaq, Garnett, or Magic.

- Tier B: You can pick one player that was a borderline all-star-level player. Use your judgment on what counts here. A general rule of thumb here is that the player should not have made more than 1-3 all-star games in their career, should never have made all-NBA first or second team, and shouldn’t have made all-NBA third team more than once or twice. Moreover, because it would put them in Tier A instead, this player should not be in the HOF or in this board’s Top 100.

- Tier C: You can pick two players that were role players, but were typically starters in their career. These players cannot have ever made an all-star game or all-NBA team, nor can they be in the HOF or in this board’s Top 100.

- Tier D: You can pick four players that were role players, and were typically not starters in their career. This includes the same limitations as in Tier C (no all star games, all-NBA teams, HOF, or placement in this board’s Top 100). But we also add the further limitation that these players must have started less than half the games they played in their career.

- Tier E: You can pick three players that were very solidly bench players their entire career. This again includes the same limitations as in Tier C (no all star games, all-NBA teams, HOF, or placement in this board’s Top 100), but includes the further limitation that these players must have started fewer than 50 games in their entire career and have averaged fewer than 20 MPG in their career.

Of course, if for some reason you’d like to fill a higher tier slot with a player who would qualify for a lower tier, you can do so.

One note of caution is to generally try not to abuse picks of current players that don’t yet have certain accolades that’d put them in certain tiers but that seem likely to get there. So, for instance, don’t pick Wembanyama as a Tier C pick. You can pick current players, but just try to not game the system with them.

Relatedly, there may be some players who qualify for Tier D because they haven’t started half the games in their career, but who were clearly very consistent starters in their prime years. In that case, if you choose them for Tier D, then let’s assume that what you’re getting is the bench-era version of the player, and that you’d need to use a Tier C slot to get them in their clear-starter era.

Am interested to see what people can come up with!
__________________________

My Team

Here’s what I’ve come up with for my team (in order of what tier they occupy):

Tier A
David Robinson
Steve Nash

Tier B
Detlef Schrempf

Tier C
Shane Battier
Derrick White

Tier D
Robert Horry
Alex Caruso
Nate McMillan
Tiago Splitter

Tier E
Jose Alvarado
Chris Andersen
Chris Boucher

The general idea here is to take Steve Nash’s GOAT-level offense and surround him with (1) a GOAT-level defensive big who would also be a great PnR partner for Nash, run well in transition, and be able to space the floor at least a bit; and (2) a bunch of great defenders who can make the open shots Nash will give them. In other words, it’s basically modeled on trying to make the offense be like the 2005-2010 Suns, while also having an elite defense. I did want the team to be able to function offensively without Nash on the floor, so the team is filled with good passers, as well as having several other guys that can make their own shot (Robinson, Schrempf, and even White). That also helps capitalize on advantages Nash will create. I also wanted Nash to be able to function as well as possible offensively without Robinson on the floor, which is part of the thinking around choosing Tiago Splitter, who I think was a good PnR roll man, as well as Andersen, who was a good lob threat.

Another thing I thought through was trying to make sure the team had the ability to play big or small. The team’s baseline style offensively would be to run pick and roll with Nash and Robinson and spread the floor. But the team also has the ability to go five-out with Schrempf and Horry at the 4 and 5 spots (or even Boucher at one of those), and has the ability to run Robinson and Splitter at the same time (which is akin to something that got incredible defensive results when Duncan and Splitter were on the court together—a 97.60 defensive rating in almost 3000 of those minutes from 2011 to 2015, including 99.15 in the playoffs). The team also could run a full lockdown defense with Nash off the floor and mostly bench players on—potentially running something like McMillan, Caruso, Battier, Splitter/Horry, and Robinson. The offense there would need to rely mostly on Robinson in the half-court and transition buckets from forcing turnovers, but scoring on that group would be a nightmare for other teams. So this team would be able to give opposing teams a lot of different looks.

The biggest weakness would probably be Nash’s defense—with Nash lacking physical tools to be a good defender. But Nash was a willing defender and he’d be surrounded by so much defensive talent that I don’t see it as a big issue (especially with this being at the PG position), and obviously the defense would be incredible in Nash’s off minutes.

[Owly]

One note of caution is to generally try not to abuse picks of current players that don’t yet have certain accolades that’d put them in certain tiers but that seem likely to get there. So, for instance, don’t pick Wembanyama as a Tier C pick. You can pick current players, but just try to not game the system with them.

My Team
Tier C
Derrick White

It's nothing like the Wemby example and it's a good pick ... White was the next East guard in all-star voting so if there had been an injury he'd be off the board. Next year maybe he has a champion's halo and comes off a strong playoffs ... maybe people see Trae's regression (box and impact side) and don't gift him a slot ... it's an active prime ... it's not a given that that pick remains available in that tier.

[lessthanjake]

One note of caution is to generally try not to abuse picks of current players that don’t yet have certain accolades that’d put them in certain tiers but that seem likely to get there. So, for instance, don’t pick Wembanyama as a Tier C pick. You can pick current players, but just try to not game the system with them.

My Team
Tier C
Derrick White

It's nothing like the Wemby example and it's a good pick ... White was the next East guard in all-star voting so if there had been an injury he'd be off the board. Next year maybe he has a champion's halo and comes off a strong playoffs ... maybe people see Trae's regression (box and impact side) and don't gift him a slot ... it's an active prime ... it's not a given that that pick remains available in that tier.

Yeah, White has a chance of becoming ineligible for that tier by the end of his career, particularly with the champion’s halo you mentioned. It’s not one where I see it as likely though, given his age and general statistical profile, so he’s not the type of player where I feel like it’s gaming the system to take him.

One quick thing I’d note is that I don’t think he necessarily was “the next East guard in all-star voting.” It’s true that every East guard above him in the combined fan/player/media voting did make it this past year (in past years he’s been miles off). But I believe that that voting is only for the starters, and of course White is never going to be voted in as an all-star starter. The only way he’d get in is through the reserves, and that’s chosen through a separate coaches vote. We don’t know if he was the next guy up in the voting for the reserves (indeed, multiple guys made it in the reserves over guys who had finished above them in the fan/player/media vote). And, notably, to the extent a champion’s halo would help Boston players be selected next year (assuming they win the title), it’s not clear to me that White would be the beneficiary of that over Jrue or Porzingis—in fact, I’m inclined to think one or both of them would make it over White. In other words, my expectation is that Derrick White will never be an all star—though I admit I didn’t realize how high up he’d been in the all-star starter voting this year. That said, it is true that there’s some chance that that turns out to be wrong. In that case, I’d probably just replace Derrick White with Danny Green.

[dreamshake34]

OP if you like doing stuff like this you should play in the draft games over on the T&T Games Forum. It’s just a big fun team building exercise using all time great players. There’s typically a 88.0 FGA cap on your team and other special limitations so you don’t end up with a silly starting 5 of something like Magic/MJ/Bird/Duncan/Ewing

[jalengreen]

Tier A

Steph Curry
Anthony Davis

Tier B

Jrue Holiday

Tier C

Shane Battier
Lamar Odom

Tier D

Alex Caruso
Josh Hart
Isaiah Hartenstein
Robert Williams

Tier E

Gary Payton II
Chris Boucher
Malik Monk

Fun idea but I thought about it too hard and I don't even like this team so I'm giving up and posting what I had for now, might revisit later. Too many glue guys lol (intentionally went with modern slant)

[ardee]

Tier A

Larry Bird
Nikola Jokic

Tier B

Mike Conley

Tier C

Lamar Odom
Doug Christie

Tier D

Shaun Livingston
Kyle Korver
Channing Frye
Robert Williams

Will get to Tier E later, but really like this team as is. Bird, Odom and Jokic will create absolute magic with passing in the frontcourt, backked by a sick 3&D guard duo and more shooters/defenders off the bench.

[lessthanjake]

Tier A

Larry Bird
Nikola Jokic

Tier B

Mike Conley

Tier C

Lamar Odom
Doug Christie

Tier D

Shaun Livingston
Kyle Korver
Channing Frye
Robert Williams

Will get to Tier E later, but really like this team as is. Bird, Odom and Jokic will create absolute magic with passing in the frontcourt, backked by a sick 3&D guard duo and more shooters/defenders off the bench.

Great team! The ball movement having those guys would be pretty nuts.

Technically, Kyle Korver wouldn’t qualify for Tier D because he made an all-star game, but picking him in Tier D seems within the spirit of the exercise IMO. Perhaps we’d specify that it’s not Atlanta Korver (which probably wouldn’t make much of a difference, since I think Utah/Chicago Korver wasn’t very far below Atlanta Korver).

[Ol Roy]

Starting Five:

T-A: Larry Bird (PF), David Robinson (C)
T-B: Eddie Jones (SG)
T-C: Shane Battier (SF), Jason Terry (PG)

Bench:

T-D: Nate McMillian (SG/PG), Brent Barry (SG/SF), Robert Horry (SF/PF), Javale McGee (C)

Going to pass on Tier E for now. Can't think of people at the moment, and I doubt they'd break into the rotation.

[ardee]

Tier A

Larry Bird
Nikola Jokic

Tier B

Mike Conley

Tier C

Lamar Odom
Doug Christie

Tier D

Shaun Livingston
Kyle Korver
Channing Frye
Robert Williams

Will get to Tier E later, but really like this team as is. Bird, Odom and Jokic will create absolute magic with passing in the frontcourt, backked by a sick 3&D guard duo and more shooters/defenders off the bench.

Great team! The ball movement having those guys would be pretty nuts.

Technically, Kyle Korver wouldn’t qualify for Tier D because he made an all-star game, but picking him in Tier D seems within the spirit of the exercise IMO. Perhaps we’d specify that it’s not Atlanta Korver (which probably wouldn’t make much of a difference, since I think Utah/Chicago Korver wasn’t very far below Atlanta Korver).

Yeah, I was imagining Cavaliers Korver, completely forgot he made an All-Star team. That 2015 Hawks team was just a fever dream, 4 All-Stars, 60 wins and then get swept in the ECF by a two-man team Cavs.

And yes, Odom/Jokic would be like Odom/Pau from the 2008-10 Lakers on steroids. Oh boy, now I'm just sad thinking about how much great Odom play we missed out on. Wish he had never left the Lakers but even then we could've gotten an Odom/Dirk frontcourt if his career didn't fall apart after he turned 31. What could've been...

[clearlynotjesse]

Jokic
Giannis

Jrue

Finney-Smith
KCP

Kleber
Ingles
Norman Powell
Tyus Jones

[homecourtloss]

Tier A

Larry Bird
Nikola Jokic

Tier B

Mike Conley

Tier C

Lamar Odom
Doug Christie

Tier D

Shaun Livingston
Kyle Korver
Channing Frye
Robert Williams

Will get to Tier E later, but really like this team as is. Bird, Odom and Jokic will create absolute magic with passing in the frontcourt, backked by a sick 3&D guard duo and more shooters/defenders off the bench.

Great team! The ball movement having those guys would be pretty nuts.

Technically, Kyle Korver wouldn’t qualify for Tier D because he made an all-star game, but picking him in Tier D seems within the spirit of the exercise IMO. Perhaps we’d specify that it’s not Atlanta Korver (which probably wouldn’t make much of a difference, since I think Utah/Chicago Korver wasn’t very far below Atlanta Korver).

Yeah, I was imagining Cavaliers Korver, completely forgot he made an All-Star team. That 2015 Hawks team was just a fever dream, 4 All-Stars, 60 wins and then get swept in the ECF by a two-man team Cavs.

Basically it was a one-man sweep with that one man clearly hampered with injuries. Kyrie only played two games and only 49 minutes in these games.

And yes, Odom/Jokic would be like Odom/Pau from the 2008-10 Lakers on steroids. Oh boy, now I'm just sad thinking about how much great Odom play we missed out on. Wish he had never left the Lakers but even then we could've gotten an Odom/Dirk frontcourt if his career didn't fall apart after he turned 31. What could've been...

Odom/Jokic would be an incredible pairing.

[Owly]

One note of caution is to generally try not to abuse picks of current players that don’t yet have certain accolades that’d put them in certain tiers but that seem likely to get there. So, for instance, don’t pick Wembanyama as a Tier C pick. You can pick current players, but just try to not game the system with them.

My Team
Tier C
Derrick White

It's nothing like the Wemby example and it's a good pick ... White was the next East guard in all-star voting so if there had been an injury he'd be off the board. Next year maybe he has a champion's halo and comes off a strong playoffs ... maybe people see Trae's regression (box and impact side) and don't gift him a slot ... it's an active prime ... it's not a given that that pick remains available in that tier.

Yeah, White has a chance of becoming ineligible for that tier by the end of his career, particularly with the champion’s halo you mentioned. It’s not one where I see it as likely though, given his age and general statistical profile, so he’s not the type of player where I feel like it’s gaming the system to take him.

One quick thing I’d note is that I don’t think he necessarily was “the next East guard in all-star voting.” It’s true that every East guard above him in the combined fan/player/media voting did make it this past year (in past years he’s been miles off). But I believe that that voting is only for the starters, and of course White is never going to be voted in as an all-star starter. The only way he’d get in is through the reserves, and that’s chosen through a separate coaches vote. We don’t know if he was the next guy up in the voting for the reserves (indeed, multiple guys made it in the reserves over guys who had finished above them in the fan/player/media vote). And, notably, to the extent a champion’s halo would help Boston players be selected next year (assuming they win the title), it’s not clear to me that White would be the beneficiary of that over Jrue or Porzingis—in fact, I’m inclined to think one or both of them would make it over White. In other words, my expectation is that Derrick White will never be an all star—though I admit I didn’t realize how high up he’d been in the all-star starter voting this year. That said, it is true that there’s some chance that that turns out to be wrong. In that case, I’d probably just replace Derrick White with Danny Green.

Nothing too wild here ...

Obviously the game pushes these margins because you pick guys because you rate them ...

If you want to quibble with the next guard up, I guess you can. He was the next guy by the public measure. You would think/hope he's the kind of guy that coaches notice more than most fans and media.
I would tend to think of a championship halo as something that had to be split ... I guess if you're thinking All-Star "representation", maybe. In so far as it's necessary Porzingis has missed the bulk of the playoffs. And he is (historically) less of a given to be available (healthy) for the game or the period before that that's the notional basis for voting. And White has been more box prominent in terms of box aggregate stuff in the playoffs than Holiday ... that's not necessarily something that gets JH's value but then that's true of White too ... the caveat against that is Holidays impact stuff for this playoffs is much better though in a single playoff run these will be small samples. And he was above Jrue this year and as I said still prime, where Jrue is more at an age where you would expect to see a dropoff.

He's a good player, it makes sense to want to pick him and it may well be fine. It's just he was close (I'd argue only an injury away) and still in prime so ... some may shy away ... as I said it's kind of the nature of the game to eke out the best player you can get away with.

[lessthanjake]

It's nothing like the Wemby example and it's a good pick ... White was the next East guard in all-star voting so if there had been an injury he'd be off the board. Next year maybe he has a champion's halo and comes off a strong playoffs ... maybe people see Trae's regression (box and impact side) and don't gift him a slot ... it's an active prime ... it's not a given that that pick remains available in that tier.

Yeah, White has a chance of becoming ineligible for that tier by the end of his career, particularly with the champion’s halo you mentioned. It’s not one where I see it as likely though, given his age and general statistical profile, so he’s not the type of player where I feel like it’s gaming the system to take him.

One quick thing I’d note is that I don’t think he necessarily was “the next East guard in all-star voting.” It’s true that every East guard above him in the combined fan/player/media voting did make it this past year (in past years he’s been miles off). But I believe that that voting is only for the starters, and of course White is never going to be voted in as an all-star starter. The only way he’d get in is through the reserves, and that’s chosen through a separate coaches vote. We don’t know if he was the next guy up in the voting for the reserves (indeed, multiple guys made it in the reserves over guys who had finished above them in the fan/player/media vote). And, notably, to the extent a champion’s halo would help Boston players be selected next year (assuming they win the title), it’s not clear to me that White would be the beneficiary of that over Jrue or Porzingis—in fact, I’m inclined to think one or both of them would make it over White. In other words, my expectation is that Derrick White will never be an all star—though I admit I didn’t realize how high up he’d been in the all-star starter voting this year. That said, it is true that there’s some chance that that turns out to be wrong. In that case, I’d probably just replace Derrick White with Danny Green.

Nothing too wild here ...

Obviously the game pushes these margins because you pick guys because you rate them ...

If you want to quibble with the next guard up, I guess you can. He was the next guy by the public measure. You would think/hope he's the kind of guy that coaches notice more than most fans and media.
I would tend to think of a championship halo as something that had to be split ... I guess if you're thinking All-Star "representation", maybe. In so far as it's necessary Porzingis has missed the bulk of the playoffs. And he is (historically) less of a given to be available (healthy) for the game or the period before that that's the notional basis for voting. And White has been more box prominent in terms of box aggregate stuff in the playoffs than Holiday ... that's not necessarily something that gets JH's value but then that's true of White too ... the caveat against that is Holidays impact stuff for this playoffs is much better though in a single playoff run these will be small samples. And he was above Jrue this year and as I said still prime, where Jrue is more at an age where you would expect to see a dropoff.

He's a good player, it makes sense to want to pick him and it may well be fine. It's just he was close (I'd argue only an injury away) and still in prime so ... some may shy away ... as I said it's kind of the nature of the game to eke out the best player you can get away with.

All fair points. I think Derrick White falls on the side of ekeing out the best player one can get away with, rather than trying to game the system (ala my Wemby example). Honestly, I’d be fine taking the late Spurs-era Derrick White instead of current Derrick White if current Derrick White was considered too good. Either that or Danny Green. Either one would surely be a valid pick at that tier and not much of a drop off from current Derrick White IMO.

[Owly]

First try slightly experimental team

T1
Curry
Bird

(random notes: fwiw, 11th and 12th on RealGM 100, 2023)

T2
Andrei Kirilenko

(a pretty great player at his apex, box-side and impact - wish his perimeter shooting were better but we can't have everything)

T3
Nene
Lamar Odom

(Good impact and production players for never all-stars)

T4
Darrell Armstong
Donyell Marshall
Tiago Splitter
Brent Barry

(I think none would be totally wild choices for the tier above - Armstrong is arguably cheating - in his 22.2 PER, .205 WS/48, 6.7 BPM peak year '99 the lockout meant no ASG that year - now with small samples maybe people just go on "star name" status and he's ignored but maybe not)

T5
Brian Cardinal
Jon Barry
Chris Andersen

(Hard to get quality players here but I think I succeeded Cardinal has a nice low-key box peak that got him paid, plus was generally a solid impact player and hustler; J Barry has a nice (2 year) peak too and I think had a rep for hustle and being a "cheerleader" from the bench; there are more "productive" big men than Anderson here but they probably have more warts ... he brings energy, efficiency, defense and fwiw some pretty nice career playoff numbers)

Overall
Skewed away from players in the last decade, in part because I didn't want someone active who technically qualifies right now but might end up not doing, in part because I had the numbers more available for older players.
Skewed towards maximizing talent more than fit or the modern game (latter in part because of the previous point...
putting my "best" 5 in terms of my first 5 picks sees a lineup something like

Nene
Odom
Kirilenko
Bird
Curry

... which is obviously is pretty big ... specifically 3 forwards. I guess Bird fulfills shooting and all of them can pass and maybe do a bit of handling ... Bird probably just takes the weakest cover. We do have more shooting and more guards on the bench. You don't have to put the top 5 picks out together all the time.

Not fully satisfied and maybe needs the right coach to maximize potential, but not bad. You could get to something more conventional looking with a "top 5" lineup by going West or Robertson from the "just guards" era next to Curry. Paul or Nash are more modern but small and mean a double point lineup and perhaps aren't considered on the same level as Bird. Wade's super productive but not a shooter and maybe a bit ball dominant.

I've tried to play within the defined rules but could have erred.

[post edited to change a typo]

[Texas Chuck]

Bill Walton -- A
Dirk -- A
Kirilenko -- B
Doug Christie - C
Derek Harper -C

Jason Terry - D
Bobby Jackson - D
Maxi Kleber - D
Robert Horry -D

Boban - E
Steve Novak -- E
Brian Cardinal --E

Wanted to build starting with Walton/Dirk for something different. It's definitely light on offensive creation, and lacks a true backup center, but Dirk and Maxi are fine and probably Horry plays some center too honestly.

[Owly]

At first glance
- Sabonis could have been a cheat code if not for a fairly international flavored HoF (tier D)
- To a lesser degree ditto Kukoc (tier D)
- Brook Lopez ... could be a nice option if he didn't technically make an all-star game -- he was a David Stern pick as an injury replacement (tier C)

[lessthanjake]

First try slightly experimental team

T1
Curry
Bird

(random notes: fwiw, 11th and 12th on RealGM 100, 2023)

T2
Andrei Kirilenko

(a pretty great player at his apex, box-side and impact - wish his perimeter shooting were better but we can't have everything)

T3
Nene
Lamar Odom

(Good impact and production players for never all-stars)

T4
Darrell Armstong
Donyell Marshall
Tiago Splitter
Brent Barry

(I think none would be totally wild choices for the tier above - Armstrong is arguably cheating - in his 22.2 PER, .205 WS/48, 6.7 BPM peak year '99 the lockout meant no ASG that year - now with small samples maybe people just go on "star name" status and he's ignored but maybe not)

T5
Brian Cardinal
Jon Barry
Chris Andersen

(Hard to get quality players here but I think I succeeded Cardinal has a nice low-key box peak that got him paid, plus was generally a solid impact player and hustler; J Barry has a nice (2 year) peak too and I think had a rep for hustle and being a "cheerleader" from the bench; there are more "productive" big men than Anderson here but they probably have more warts ... he brings energy, efficiency, defense and fwiw some pretty nice career playoff numbers)

Overall
Skewed away from players in the last decade, in part because I didn't want someone active who technically qualifies right now but might end up not doing, in part because I had the numbers more available for older players.
Skewd towards maximizing talent more than fit or the modern game (latter in part because of the previous point...
putting my "best" 5 in terms of my first 5 picks sees a lineup something like

Nene
Odom
Kirilenko
Bird
Curry

... which is obviously is pretty big ... specifically 3 forwards. I guess Bird fulfills shooting and all of them can pass and maybe do a bit of handling ... Bird probably just takes the weakest cover. We do have more shooting and more guards on the bench. You don't have to put the top 5 picks out together all the time.

Not fully satisfied and maybe needs the right coach to maximize potential, but not bad. You could get to something more conventional looking with a "top 5" lineup by going West or Robertson from the "just guards" era next to Curry. Paul or Nash are more modern but small and mean a double point lineup and perhaps aren't considered on the same level as Bird. Wade's super productive but not a shooter and maybe a bit ball dominant.

I've tried to play within the defined rules but could have erred.

Kirilenko is a really interesting pick at that tier 2, and I think rounds out the team well. Brian Cardinal is a good pick in the last tier IMO, and was one of the final few guys I was considering for that tier. Jon Barry is actually a great pick at that tier too—there’s probably a good argument for me to take Jon Barry over Alvarado on my team actually. Probably not a huge deal either way, since that tier of player wouldn’t play much, but definitely a good find!

In general, I’m not surprised Odom has gotten a lot of picks so far in the Tier C group. One of the best non-all-stars ever! I didn’t pick him because I was trying to stack three-point shooting onto the team to synergize with Nash, but Odom brings a ton of other stuff to the table.

[lessthanjake]

At first glance
- Sabonis could have been a cheat code if not for a fairly international flavored HoF (tier D)
- To a lesser degree ditto Kukoc (tier D)
- Brook Lopez ... could be a nice option if he didn't technically make an all-star game -- he was a David Stern pick as an injury replacement (tier C)

Yeah, another one that would’ve been an amazing pick as a Tier D guy is Michael Cooper. Probably would’ve been the best possible pick for that tier, except that he was *just* picked for the HOF a couple months ago.

[SkyHookFTW]

Tier A: Nikola Jokic, Larry Bird

Tier B: Andrew Toney

Tier C: Lamar Odom, Ron Harper

Tier D: Kyle Korver, Patty Mills, John Paxton, Robert Horry

Tier E: Didn't do a deep dive yet, but they aren't seeing the floor anyway.

[Texas Chuck]

can't believe my guy Barea has over 100 starts. Was for sure he was going to be my sneaky tier E